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That's the Way the Ball Bounces

864 views 5 replies 4 participants last post by  masterclass  
#1 ·
Please discuss these matrices...

Speed/Bounce preference by top 3 players:

Bounce High | Medium | Low
Speed
Slow...............Nadal| ..Nadal.. |Federer
Med-Slow.......Nadal| DjokNad | Federer
Medium..........Nadal| DjFedNad | Federer

Med-Fast........Djoko| FedDjok | Federer
Fast.................Djoko| Federer | Federer

Speed/Bounce 2011 by Major/YEC:

Bounce High | Medium | Low
Speed
Slow...............------ | ---------- |-----
Med-Slow.......--RG-| ----AO--- |-WTF-
Medium..........-------| WB-USO |-----

Med-Fast..........-----|------------ | -----
Fast.................------| ----------- |-----

Ideal Speed/Bounce by Major/YEC:

Bounce High | Medium | Low
Speed
Slow...............--RG-| ----------- |------
Med-Slow.......------|----AO----- |------
Medium...........------|---WTF---- |-------

Med-Fast.........------|---USO--- | -----
Fast.................------| ----------- |-WBL-

Respectfully,
masterclass
 
#6 ·
That's true expecially recently. Previous to the early 2000's the court played fast the first week and perhaps slightly slower the second week, but the key was the bounce almost always stayed relatively low, and was not consistent. This generally favored serve and volley style of play. If you tried to play rallies, you would inevitably get a bad bounce.

Since the early 2000's and the changes they made to make the court more playable for the clay court players, the court's soil has gradually become more dense, leading to a higher more consistent bounce, especially in the second week once the grass has worn. The higher bounce slows the play down in that the retriever types have more time to get to the ball and attacking players have a harder time putting the ball away. The overall court wear is also different. The wear is now almost all in the back 1/4 of the court horizontally across, which is due to a combination of factors - resulting in more baseline play than serve and volley. Consequently, rally shots hit deep tend to bounce higher and it behaves almost as a dirt or clay court. Before, wear was generally more even (it looked like a horizontal H), and generally played more evenly throughout the tournament.

I favor returning conditions back in the other direction, since I believe grass should be generally fast and lower bouncing, and generally favor the serve and volley player if anyone. Maybe it doesn't have to be quite as fast as before, since people would start complaining about the big servers having too big an advantage and the points being too short, but 15 and 20 shot rallies on grass are ridiculous in my opinion, and it only wears out the grass even more. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 
#4 ·
I think this bounce-speed dicsussions are not relevant, because it is changing all the time, players prefer different condtions in every match, i mean it depends who you are playing against. Also some players can play great on totally different conditions, for example guy like Soderling is statistically and generally best indoors - faster-lower bouncing surfaces, howewer we all know how dangerous he can be on clay-higher bouncing-slower conditions.

So this speeed-bounce really it isn´t that important, also surface is important, you can have higher bouncing HC, lower bouncing clay and so on , outdoor-indoors is also important factor.

BY top players - Nole changed, he was better at faster surfaces, now clearly he is better on slower
Rafa- everyone would think he is best on slow surfaces, but in some matches he cleary can prefer faster surfaces, depends who is he playing

Roger- generaly- faster the surface better for him, but not when he is playing someone like Tsonga for example and so on.. really it depends

Who they play against, if it is indoor-outdoors and what kind of surface it is. To many factors to be included in such discussion
 
#5 ·
Yes Romismak, there are many factors. And I agree with much that you say, but I was trying to keep things as simple and general as I could. :) :cool:

My general belief is that indoors-outdoors doesn't matter much if at all - I think this is a common misconception based on the coincidental fact that Federer happens to be undefeated vs. Nadal indoors. But it's not being indoors that is the key. One has to look at the conditions, and for Federer it is mostly the bounce. Federer excels on a low bouncing court no matter if it inside the O2 arena or outdoors in the gusty cool conditions at Indian Wells. He generally doesn't do as well on high bouncing surfaces whether they are indoor clay like in Fribourg, Switzerland or outdoors on any surface, especially when his opponent is someone whose game excels on a high bouncing surface (e.g. Nadal, Isner).

And since all 3 seem at least fairly adept on all surfaces, I don't think the surface itself matters as much (clay, hard, or grass) as much as the characteristics (bounce especially, speed next). Nadal prefers high bouncing conditions that accentuate his topspin. Djokovic seems to be a tweener, mid bounce, not too slow, and not too fast. That's my general opinion.

Also, this is not about other players. You're right, Tsonga, Llodra, others might do better on a faster surface than Federer, but I was only talking about who is better on which type among the top 3 only. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. :shrug: :cool: Oh, and I should have made it clear, the top matrix is general and separate from the bottom two, which apply only to the majors/YEC.

Thanks for your opinions.

Respectfully,
masterclass