What's he lacking?? Besides at least 2 grand slams, currently has 4 (2 AO, 1 W, and 1 USO)... Does he need the FO, does he just need 2-3 more grand slams?? More singles titles overall??
Jannik Sinner, what does he need to become an ATG?
3 reading
theseth1119
41 - 60 of 67 Posts
Joined
·
16,602 Posts
Imo 6 seems to be a number that makes the most sense unless we have WAY too many players winning 6+ slams. I can't bother look this up, but I want to know which 10-year period had the most 6+ slam winners within that period?
Alcaraz won his first slam in 2022. For argument's sake, let's start the Sincaraz era from there. From 2022 till 2032, how many 6+ slam winners will we have? Alcaraz is already there, and Sinner is most likely getting there. Who else? Djokovic won 3 in 2023 but he won't win more. The answer is impossible to know, but I won't be too surprised if the answer remains just Alcaraz and Sinner. MAYBE just one more player at best?
However, it seems that having only two players win 6+ slams within 10 years is the norm in tennis? or was that number higher in the past eras? If that's the norm, then yes, 6 slams seems a very reasonable number for "ATG" status imo. I really want to give a special exception to Murray, however. His peak level and overall consistency were certainly 6+ slam material. Just unfortunate to play vs prime Big 3.
Joined
·
16,923 Posts
Indeed, with six or more Slams, there is a significant concentration in a period from Connors to Becker.
Overall, over 20 years.
Connors 74-82: 8
Borg 74-81: 11
McEnroe: 78-85: 7
Lendl: 84-90: 8
Wilander: 82-88: 7
Edberg: 85-92: 6
Becker: 85-96: 6
If you consider all matches in slams and the finals played between these players, you also arrive at a larger total.
Joined
·
16,923 Posts
Note that Edberg and Becker close the group with 6... but that they are also faced with several lost finals: Edberg at AO and Becker at Wimbledon, against Courier at his peak and Sampras... who are also the most numerous GS winners in the first half of the 90s (Agassi gets his 8 at the end of the 90s and beginning of the 2000s).
So the 6 don't prove that they are the "weak links" of this group... far from it...
It's a very busy period.
Joined
·
16,923 Posts
The total number of slams is always a relative value, taken out of context.
It's obvious that the absence of the first three players mentioned in AO has an impact.
The same goes for Lendl, who played AO on grass during his peak... but won 2 on HC after his peak..( 89 and 90)
And also consider the fact that no AO was played in 1986, when Edberg won AO in 85 and 87.
The 1970-80s should always be viewed with a very specific lens, considering the circuit of the time.
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
Courier and Vilas.
The Becker/Edberg/Wilander trio is usually the cutoff for the ATG list.
Joined
·
584 Posts
True. To add to that, Becker reached as many Wimbledon finals as Sampras but lost four, while Sampras won them all. Becker also had more total match wins in the tournament. Titles remain the most important measure of success, but they don’t tell the full story of how competitive a player was in that era.
Joined
·
527 Posts
But it does look like that according to 6+ GS rule. Even McEnroe looks like "weak" ATG, but he was one of the best players in history.
I watched tennis when Courier was the man to beat. I've always thought he won 3 majors though, and I never considered him an ATG.
I don't remember Villas but from what I red about him (I think you florentine praised him here also) I think he is widely considered ATG.
@Nole Rules : As you can see in florentine's list, there were 7 ATGs in 22 years period, but then in the next 22 years period (96 - 2018) there are only three. That's why I think that 4 was more realistic "cut-away point" than 6. Of course, with a wiggle room for +-1, so that you can include Murray (whom most experts consider ATG and deservedly so) and maybe exclude Courier.
I'd like to know are there any other players with 4 Majors except the two you mentioned? What about old ATGs like Don Budge and there are few more names I can't remember?
Joined
·
4,565 Posts
Enough wins. Current win ratio is ok, but can he keep it up?
Joined
·
527 Posts
Just to add one more thing: An ATG should have at least one generation dominance (5-6 years), which Sinner doesn't have yet. So the only way Sinner doesn't become ATG is if he somehow fades away with long injury or simmilar and never become as dominant as he is now
Joined
·
70,008 Posts
One generation dominance? 5-6 years? What do you need for «dominance»? Not #1, surely.
Joined
·
16,923 Posts
Of course, this is what I specify in my successive posts on this thread.
Joined
·
667 Posts
65 weeks at #1 is a huge deal. Of the players who have more than that, all are obvious ATGs with the exception of Lleyton Hewitt.
Sinner's basically almost there if he isn't already. Just stay healthy.
Sinner's basically almost there if he isn't already. Just stay healthy.
Joined
·
527 Posts
Of course not. I ment at least 5 years (not necessarily consecutive) of playing high level tennis, winning titles, being in top ten - but mostly top 5 etc. I guess "dominance" is not the right word, but dominating most other players for that period of time.
Joined
·
527 Posts
Exactly. He's proven he has the skills and play of ATG players. He just need to continue playing like this for few more years.
Joined
·
5,760 Posts
All Time Grunter? Haa-eehhhhhh, vamo vamo
This post is for @Muzzafan who is looking down on us from heaven and smiling
Pretty much this. It's going to take a bit more than beating the Zverevs and Fritzs of the world to convince me of 'All time greatness'. That he's wracking up quite an unimpressive record vs his only credible rival isn't doing the ATG campaign much good either.
41 - 60 of 67 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
