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Also wasn't carpet banned because it was dangerous or was that just a myth? @BurnsTennis @SetSampras Was Federer the main reason they got banned?
I wrote this article in 2012. I even got the great Richard Krajicek to contribute to my article. I also spoke to an ATP spokesman but at the time he did not want his name quoted.

From what you guys said in another thread, I sound like Roger Federer at the end of the article.

 
The days of random slam winners are long gone. Federer is right on that one.
@ForaFrank - why did tennis surface homogenisation occur and why is there so little surface variety these days?
Compared to the 1990s?
Why did the ATP get rid of indoor carpet?
Don't ask ForaFrank, ask a human.

You are just going to get a very generic response inluding buzz words and phrases such as finance and popularity of baseline play.
 
@RocketMan70

It's a great question, and you've landed in the middle of a long-running debate. The move toward surface homogenization wasn't a single event but a confluence of factors, mostly boiling down to commerce, technology, and a dash of player safety. In the late 90s and early 2000s, the consensus was that serve-and-volley tennis, dominant on ultra-fast grass and carpet, was leading to short, unappealing points. To create longer rallies for television and spectators, tournament directors began to slow things down. Slower surfaces also give top seeds a better chance of surviving early-round upsets from big-serving specialists, and a tournament director sleeps a lot better knowing their star attractions are likely to be in the final.

This trend was supercharged by advances in racquet and string technology. The rise of polyester strings, in particular, was a game-changer. It allowed players to take huge swings at the ball and generate incredible topspin, causing the ball to dip sharply at an opponent's feet. This effectively neutralized the classic serve-and-volleyer's approach to the net. As the baseline game became the most effective strategy, the courts evolved with it, creating a feedback loop. Wimbledon's grass was changed to a more durable, higher-bouncing rye, and many hard courts were made slower, creating a tour where the optimal playing style is largely the same everywhere.

As for indoor carpet, the ATP officially phased it out in 2009, citing player safety and a desire to standardize the tour. Carpet could be unforgiving on the joints and its low, fast bounce was a relic of an era the game was already moving away from. Removing it was the final, decisive step in eliminating a truly distinct surface and ensuring the tour's calendar was dominated by two surfaces—hard and clay—that played more similarly to each other than ever before.
 
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To be honest, the homogenization of surfaces is linked to the evolution of equipment, frames, and strings, starting in the early 1990s, which led to a development of power and athleticism at the expense of technique... which led to a game that has become mostly uniform and boring, with a few very rare exceptions.

I've addressed this fact in a few posts.

#30·Jun 7, 2024

The physical level and power have increased through the "grace" of athletics, gymnastics and other acrobatics and "high-tech" equipment, but certainly not the technical level 😌

#54·Dec 13, 2023

Big_Juicy said:
I really don’t see what is not clear here.
It's absolutely clear.

Increase in technology, dietetics, medicine, athletics and others does not mean improvement in technique.

And the small wooden rackets with natural strings tell us about that.

modern equipment allows for a lot of technical deficiencies,

Without superfluous comparison, technology does not make Verstappen a better driver than Fangio.

I'm even surprised to have to specify that.

#55·Dec 13, 2023

#186·Sep 3, 2023

wake_up_bomb said:
But I can't see how you can possible say that the fitness and conditioning in the WTA is abysmal, when there are some players in unbelievable physical shape.
It is not always the physical condition which is lacking in WTA,
On the contrary, athletics has never been so forward


but also sometimes the arsenal and the technical variety, the tactical sense which is lacking, also among the men. :dunno:

#51·Mar 3, 2025

We had to wait until the 2010s.. and MTF, to learn here that the US Open Decoturf was..a slow surface.. :facepalm:

It has never been described as a slow surface, since its adoption in 1978 until a... more recent era, let's say.

Basically, it was considered a rather moderately fast surface, but of course far from the immense contrast between clay and grass... and where all types of games could be played..

Who imagines here that McEnroe won 4 times and Sampras 5 times on a "slow" surface? :rolleyes:
Not to mention other fast surface enthusiasts player like Rafter, Edberg or Becker?

It is not the "Decoturf" which is slow, it is its composition which determines the stiffness and rebound, by abrasion and the quantity of sand added to the covering.

It's no more rocket science than that, it has been explained in numerous studies since, and noted by other observers like Jim Courier, and it is useless to recall that the tendency has been to "slow down" (with all the consequences induced in the evolution of the game) the surfaces in general, in proportion to rebalancing with the power acquired by the more technological equipment, the importance taken by athletics over technique.

There is not a surface here as Decoturf II ( and it's the same for all hard synthetics whatever their name.)
which would be "slow" by definition, it is its composition which determines this, in particular the external covering, as it was noted that the main courts (AAS, LAS) were "slower" than the annex courts.

#43·Jun 6, 2025

comfortably numb said:
Instead of cancelling the root cause - two serve attempts - the game's powers that be went along with slowing courts and balls. And now we have what we have - 3-4 hour attrition fests of brainless ballbashing until career-ending injuries
Yes and
Modern technologies, including equipment, composite materials, fibers, strings, and frame sizes, have all played a role in exploiting the power, athleticism, and technical impoverishment of the game.

Give them back small wooden frames, and we'll see their powerful balls disappear behind the stands. :D

#76·Feb 10, 2025

Seona Dancing said:
That's not entirely true. Laver would be taller if born today, as people are getting taller every generation. If he was small for his era, would be small compared to the field today by the same ratio, relative to todays average. Probably leave him around 5"11 or so
I agree with that, not to mention the evolution of equipment completely geared towards power, but, with Rosewall, what is certain that no one could take away from them is their technical arsenal...imo much superior to many players today..

And this is true for others like Connors (1m78..), Borg or McEnroe, whose height did not exceed 1m80.

That is to say, inferior to.. Carlos.. who everyone here says that his height is a handicap..

Discussion starter·#8·Nov 16, 2024

FedererBulgaria said:
The game is more physical than before, do not compare it.
Of course the game is more physical than before, and also much less technical.. :rolleyes:

The equipment has evolved, racket, frame, strings.


Which didn't stop the players from getting injured too... except that they didn't have mountains of dollars to have high-tech medical treatments while sleeping on their money while waiting to return, on the circuit... while sponsors continue to pay and even less with comfort statuses (SE etc).

I maintain, it has never been easier for players than now, from every angle I see.. 😌


That's the theme of the thread... don't compare it. it and them, the players.

Put in their hands a wooden racket now, with gut string, small frame and you will see that the game will become much less physical, suddenly, by magic.. :sneaky:
 
Why the heck was the just completed Laver Cup slow as molasses? Arguably the slowest hardcourt we've seen this year.

It's easy to talk about speeding up the game but when you're in charge of a tourney, I guess it's even easier to choose rally length to (supposedly) entertain the masses over a fast court speed.
 
He profited from that too against the field, no doubt, but we don't know for sure if he truly preferred that new reality? Adapting is part of the game, and it seems he genuinely values that or do you think he is lying about this? Djokovic doesn't mind adapting either. Nadal basically forced him to be a different beast. He used to hit much flatter early in his career. Federer probably wouldn't have minded losing more to Tsonga or Berdych or someone else on hot form if that meant more meetings vs Rafole on more varied surface speeds and see who adapts the best on a given day. We can't know for sure but I believe what he says there.

I don't think this is a case of sour grapes. It's just his honest opinion. Also, why did Roddick ask that question out of nowhere? He clearly sees something, too. But it's hard to pinpoint exactly when the surface overall truly got noticeably slower and how far the tournaments went with this.
Oh no I think he's genuine and he probably doesn't even mean it like this, but now it's a bit of a dig against Alcaraz and Sinner saying their achievements are being propped up by tournament directors wanting them to reach finals while they did that for him too

Big Three all showed they are able to adapt in certain ways, Federer got the new racket with bigger head size and changed his backhand technique, Nadal started playing more offensively and improved his serve, Djokovic also improved his serve and added more variety to his game
 
Also wasn't carpet banned because it was dangerous or was that just a myth? @BurnsTennis @SetSampras Was Federer the main reason they got banned?
I wrote this article in 2012. I even got the great Richard Krajicek to contribute to my article. I also spoke to an ATP spokesman but at the time he did not want his name quoted.

From what you guys said in another thread, I sound like Roger Federer at the end of the article.

I recently contacted a spokesman for the ATP based in Florida. He said that “medium paced surfaces is fairer for everybody as you have more rallies because of the style of play today”. I asked him if hardcourts were more punishing on the body, he pointed out that carpet had caused serious injuries as well and it didn’t necessarily follow that hardcourts were more punishing, he noted Alexander Chesnekov suffered a serious injury one year in Philadelphia playing on carpet “you may have cement rolled over the boards, not necessarily the case that carpet is less punishing on the body.” The ATP spokesman pointed out there were complaints that tennis was too fast, there were not enough rallies and many players favoured a change to a more acrylic surface.
Injuries were the BS excuse they used to push their agenda

They ran the data on this and found hardcourt and clay saw a higher rate of retirements than grass and carpet

The aim of this study was to explore the effect of characteristics
of various games and players on the proportion of retired tennis
matches in the Open Era of tennis. The data included over
420,000 matches played among 17,553 tennis players in the
period from 1968 to the end of 2010. The influence of the sur-
face type was clearly confirmed, with the proportion of retired
matches being higher on hard and clay courts compared to grass
and carpet surfaces. Similarly, more retired matches were ob-
served in outdoor venues than in indoor ones.
Image



Granted there are some nuances like outdoor matches having retirements because of heat as well and carpet having a lower average match time, but the numbers will never lead to carpet being an evil injury prone surface
 
I think he genuinely means it. Don't think this is a dig at Djoker or Nadal or anyone else for that matter.
Djokovic would thrive much more in faster surfaces actually. But it's not in the surface. It's in the players - no competition there. We have again players who are playing well at clay and those who are playing well at grass - they are different surfaces after all but there are no good enough players to challenge Sinner and Alcaraz - that's the problem. Sinner is not that good at grass and clay (remember this year Dimitrov at grass Vs Sinner).but there is no competition at the moment - that's the whole point.
 
When was the last time we had a S&V/approach shot clinic like the one Tsonga pulled vs Nadal in AO 2008 SF? And that was just Tsonga. Top players were just more skilled overall back then imo. This isn't some Big 4 propaganda. It was a legit more fun era to watch, not just stronger. The 2000s had a great surface balance. I would say the '90s, too, after watching a lot of highlights. Early 2010 was okish perhaps but things got worse and worse afterwards. Everything has played similarly for a decade now.
Djokovic at 2023 US Open and at 2022 Wimbledon - showed that the problem are the players not the surface. They simply don't train to do that.
 
sorry Rog, but if all surfaces played the same, Nadal wouldn't have 14 FO titles and only 8 titles of the other 3 GS combined.

Nadal is proof that at minimum, clay plays very differently than the other surfaces.
Hard courts are playing differently also because they are made with different mixture. But the speed is not slowed down - it is the same. The players are different. Too much power in the rackets - this is the problem.
 
Injuries were the BS excuse they used to push their agenda

They ran the data on this and found hardcourt and clay saw a higher rate of retirements than grass and carpet



Image



Granted there are some nuances like outdoor matches having retirements because of heat as well and carpet having a lower average match time, but the numbers will never lead to carpet being an evil injury prone surface
Thanks for the info. That study was published in 2012, same year I wrote this article.

My opinion is if the ATP and WTA wanted to do it, they could commission a more up to date carpet surface which everyone would be content with.

For instance, Taraflex who provided the surface for the ATP finals in Frankfurt from 1990 to 1995, provide surfaces for both badmington and volleyball today. So it stands to reason that it is possible to make a safe indoor carpet surface today which can be used on the tours.

Many players loved playing on indoor carpet. I read both of Monica Seles's books and she always said how much she loved indoor supreme. Ivan Lendl won 28 clay tournaments and 34 carpet tournaments. He was incredible on the slowest and fastest surface.
 
Thanks for the info. That study was published in 2012, same year I wrote this article.

My opinion is if the ATP and WTA wanted to do it, they could commission a more up to date carpet surface which everyone would be content with.

For instance, Taraflex who provided the surface for the ATP finals in Frankfurt from 1990 to 1995, provide surfaces for both badmington and volleyball today. So it stands to reason that it is possible to make a safe indoor carpet surface today which can be used on the tours.

Many players loved playing on indoor carpet. I read both of Monica Seles's books and she always said how much she loved indoor supreme. Ivan Lendl won 28 clay tournaments and 34 carpet tournaments. He was incredible on the slowest and fastest surface.
From personal experience I can say that having played on all types of carpets and both the Australian Open and US Open hardcourt surfaces, the carpets are all easier on the legs
 
The days of random slam winners are long gone. Federer is right on that one.

which "days of random slam winners" are you talking about, exactly?

in the last 40 years, there have been how many random slam winners? Gaudio and Johansson. That's it. You could possibly throw Cilic in there to make it 3, although Cilic played multiple additional GS finals, so i would dispute his inclusion.

there never were any days of "random slam winners" in the modern era.
 
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