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Disadvantages of Excessive Height at Top Level

4K views 23 replies 14 participants last post by  Phillo  
#1 ·
I think you all would agree with me if I were to claim ATGs tend to be within the 5'11-6'2 height range. Anything more, is what I define as excessive.

Before jumping to the negatives, let's look at positives. There are two major advantages of height in tennis. The first one is a potent serve. It is often agreed that the taller you are the better chances of possessing a good serve you have. Now, there is some further nuance to this, like how people can have differing physical proportions which in turn can impact the practicality of their height, but as a general rule it rings true. The second (and lesser) advantage is a taller player has a bigger frame and a heavier built, allowing him easier power. Some minor advantages exist too, such as the ability to hit better overheads and to have a better reach.

Overall height grants a lot of positives that are easy to take advantage of, in comparison to theorical positives of a shorter build which is often failed to be manifested to reality by the players that possess them. Compare the heights of the top thirty, fifty, hundred players and you'll see my point.

However there are far too many disadvantages that generally prevent players of such heights from ever reaching the very top status.

Some are obvious. Greater weight may cause injuries to be more common and more severe, and taller players generally don't move well.

I'm posting this thread because Medvedev has made some interesting attempts to circumvent the problems that come with his height. However this had it's own shortcomings.

Firstly, he is thin. Which has to be a major reason why he can move so well at his height, and he is content with it considering his playstyle. However, this causes a considerable lack of power when hitting the ball, and a perhaps a likeliness to exhaustion which directly clashes with his style. Many people who have watched the AO'22 F would agree with me on the last point. Overall, it's an interesting thought whether putting on some more muscle and raising that body fat percentage a bit more would benefit Med, but at the end of the day I'm not the professional athlete.

Another unique aspect of his is the shape of his groundstrokes. I'd love to be corrected, but I believe the sweeping motion he makes when hitting the ball is done to deal with the uncomfortably low or close or of any problematic bounce.

His return position is perhaps his biggest problem, at least when against top players. I'm not sure how I can connect this to height, maybe taller people have worse reaction times in general? Not a problem other 6'6 players on the court suffer enough from to adopt that RoS position.

Overall I am sad for his failures and I commend him for all of his accomplishments, but I have to ponder if it's possible at all one could have done better with his style and body type.

Discuss!
 
#4 ·
OP some very good observations. I do believe there is an ideal height. If more height is better John Isner would've won everything in sight since he's 6'10". Considering the Big 3 are 6'1"(1.85m) Federer, 6'1" Nadal, 6'2"(1.88m) Djokovic, and Alcaraz is listed as 6'0" (1.83m), I'd say the ideal height is as you said between 6'-6'2". What the taller players gain in serve advantage they lose in agility and RoS on low bounce surface like grass and fast HC. But I have to say in general the taller male players move pretty well for their height like Med. He can run down balls so well.

In women's this is even more stark. The taller players do not move well at all, like Pliskova, Kvitova, Rybakina. There's something so awkward about the way they move. Meanwhile 3 of the 4 grand slam winners this year are 5'9", Sabalenka is the only odd one out who's 5'11". Raducanu is also 5'9", along with Steffi Graf and Serena. How odd is that? 5'9" just seems like the perfect height for a female tennis player.
 
#17 ·
Don't forget Lindsay Davenport for the tall ones who didn't move well. She is 6 ft 2.

Venus Williams was a total outlier in that respect, she moved like a sprinter at her pomp.

Amelie Muresmo is also 5 ft 9. As well as Kim Clijsters.

I could be wrong but Raducanu looks more 5 ft 8 to me than 5 ft 9, like Angelique Kerber.

By the way, even if Raducanu is 5 ft 9, I have to say I don't think she moves very well at all. Fast twitch fibres do not come to mind when I think of Raducanu.
 
#8 · (Edited)
The most obvious is usually those that are really tall don't move that well. There are exceptions of course like a Venus Williams in her prime was really tall for a woman and a great mover. But that was more the exception than the rule.

Off the top of my head I don't remember a really tall guy being a great mover. And if there was one again it was an exception to the rule.
 
#10 ·
Off the top of my head I don't remember a really tall guy being a great mover.
Med kinda is a good mover but it comes at the expense of being underpowered. Which is partly why I made this thread as Med's attempt at making his style work is pretty interesting.

Notice I said potentially because Iga clearly don't have a great serve right now.
What I wonder is if the difference is influenced by proportions. Coco and Iga are the same height but from the screen it seems like Gauff has a shorter torso&longer limbs, perhaps giving her better reach.

However imo Iga's serving woes are more about inconsistency regarding her first serve and attackibility regarding her second serve. She has the potential to improve them for sure.
 
#11 ·
Best examples are Zverev and Medvedev, they have both very good serves, but they are poor movers compared to other elite players right now or to multi-slam champs/ATGs.
If you are above 6'2" (around 190 cm) then your legs and arms are too long proportionally to your trunk, so you need to adjust.
In case of really tall players (Isner, Opelka, Karlovic) we have seen how they were poor movers and were able to reach more court coverage only by losing out on the other side of things.

Having enough arm strength and having a very good/elite serve should go arm-by-arm. Serve is not just about pure raw power though, but placement too, so it's not easy to decide which way to go i.e. which side should be stronger.

Off the top of my head I don't remember a really tall guy being a great mover. And if there was one again it was an exception to the rule.
Safin
 
#15 ·
Medvedev is almost a unique case.

I have never seen someone so tall move like that. I was fortunate to watch him play against Hurkacz in 2021 Wimbledon. Ironically, Hurkacz is just one inch shorter. They both moved very well that day, it was enjoyable tennis.

Ironically, both men have suffered since then for one reason or another. As you said, it is just a "tall thing".

Since I have been watching tennis:

Michael Stich, Richard Krajicek, Mark Phillippoussis, Greg Rusedski, Goran Ivanisevic, Todd Martin, Marat Safin, Milos Raonic all suffered in one way or another with all types of injuries. 6 ft 4 (1 metre 93?) plus seems to bring problems.

I hate to see Medvedev running around counterpunching like Micahel Chang. His problem is he hits the ball so low over the net it is almost unbelievable.

The only other player I have seen who hits the ball literally skimming the net every time was another Russian Anastasia Myskina. Personally it makes so sense to me, its too risky and difficult to be consistent doing that, any deviation and it goes wrong quick.

There has to be a margin for error at the professional level, especially the elite level. There has to be more height over the net, more topspin. Medvevev also has an incredible forehand which I cannot really expain (what it is). It's unique, not textbook so would be extremely surprised if he learned that technique in a tennis school.

However, the key thing for me is this. Trying to hit from that far back, with not much topspin, and get it deep enough so he doesn't get attacked is going to be taxing on not just his strength in his body but also his mind.

I say to anyone reading this, next time you go to your tennis court. Stand back almost next to the fence, and envisage trying to hit the ball from that position, over the net to the other side. Not only hit to the other side of the court, but making sure it is between the service line and the baseline. Preferably closer to the baseline than service line (dropping on the service line constitutes a short ball and can be attacked by your opponent).

Whe you look at it from that perspective, what Medvedev has been doing is a form of madness.

You can hit winners from that far back every now again which falls in the specatular shot category. But a bread and butter game from back there is strange.

BUT

I hear he is making adjustments. I look forward to seeing him play next year to see what he has come up with.
 
#16 ·
.The second (and lesser) advantage is a taller player has a bigger frame and a heavier built, allowing him easier power. [...]

However, this causes a considerable lack of power when hitting the ball, and a perhaps a likeliness to exhaustion which directly clashes with his style. Many people who have watched the AO'22 F would agree with me on the last point. Overall, it's an interesting thought whether putting on some more muscle and raising that body fat percentage a bit more would benefit Med, but at the end of the day I'm not the professional athlete.
Some good points, but you're wrong on these ones.
A bigger frame or a heavier built doesn't give you more power, better leverages and explosiveness does (technique too but that's obvious). A tall dude with thin but long arms will hit a faster ball on average than a jacked short one.
Putting on muscles and (lol) fat won't help you for shit (at least in the contest of reasonably fit adults, obviously if you're malnourished or something that's a problem).
 
#18 ·
Don't think it's strictly down to height.

Zverev & Meddy r better runners & more athletic than a Delpo was & they're all the same height.

Difference is the bigger boned Delpo had better feel for the game & hit w/ more accuracy & touch than those two because he had to due to his heavier weight. Plus way higher tennis IQ than esp. Zverev.
 
#19 ·
The athelticism of the tall.players is so much better than it used to be. Isner/karlovic and other 2m+ players used to always look really awkward

As for medvedev, ive said it before, but i cannot fathom how he can hit it from so far back, and low over the net consistently.
Me and a few coaches when med reached the top, we said that his luck of low % shots would run out and people would figure his game out. We were wrong
 
#20 ·
Here's something that I've been curious about for a while in relation to height and tennis... I heard a tennis pundit suggest that taller players have poorer hand-eye coordination, possibly due to the longer time that it takes for messages to travel down nerves, a tiny difference that nevertheless makes a difference in a game of very fine margins. I have been wondering if there is any scientific validity to this theory and if there are any studies to back this up. Anyone know?
 
#22 ·
I often joke Medvedev's hand eye coordination can't be great because he stands next to fence to return serve and needs all day to see the ball. But I am not serious.

Unless the pundit gives us some proof like a scientifc paper, not sure about that.

Tall serve volleyers had to deal with 100mph returns coming straight at them to volley away, or hit stop and stretch volleys when required.

That is the definition of hand eye coordination.

It's the relative lack of speed when running that is the problem, which gets shown up in baseline rallies.

Medvedev is the only true quick player along the baseline we have seen. But he is lean, maybe too lean.

Have you seen the Alexander Zverev Technical Discussion thread? Stuck in the Advanced Stats section.

Not happy about that. Should be in General Messages.

I will ask Moderators to only stick those threads there after a week of replies on General Messages.
 
#23 ·
Don't think it's strictly down to height.

Zverev & Meddy r better runners & more athletic than a Delpo was & they're all the same height.

Difference is the bigger boned Delpo had better feel for the game & hit w/ more accuracy & touch than those two because he had to due to his heavier weight. Plus way higher tennis IQ than esp. Zverev.
That's my entire point!

Medvedev tried to get around the height disadvantage by remaining very lean, allowing him good movement. But imo that took away the advantages of size/height too, like a booming forehand.


Putting on muscles and (lol) fat won't help you for shit (at least in the contest of reasonably fit adults, obviously if you're malnourished or something that's a problem).
Well, Medvedev kinda looks at the border of that?

A good muscle/fat ratio helps with hormones and energy levels too. I definitely feel Medvedev runs out of steam too often for a defensive player.
 
#24 ·
That's my entire point!

Medvedev tried to get around the height disadvantage by remaining very lean, allowing him good movement. But imo that took away the advantages of size/height too, like a booming forehand.



Well, Medvedev kinda looks at the border of that?

A good muscle/fat ratio helps with hormones and energy levels too. I definitely feel Medvedev runs out of steam too often for a defensive player.
I think this shot might come down to individual players more than their size.

They say veteran Fed had one early in career & young gun Fonseca seems to possess one too & they're both very average & leaner sized so it may just b an innate thing having to do w/ forearm strength.