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"Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU rally"

289K views 3.6K replies 130 participants last post by  acacacacademy  
#1 ·
"Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU rally"

If only this was simply about a trade pact.

http://www.euronews.com/2013/11/21/ukraine-cancels-historic-trade-pact-with-the-eu/

Ukraine has suspended negotiations with the European Union on a landmark trade association agreement that Brussels had hoped would be signed next week.

The announcement came hours after Ukraine’s parliament voted to prevent jailed opposition leader and former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko from travelling to Germany for medical treatment. The Tymoshenko case had been a major sticking point in relations between the EU and Ukraine, with Brussels making her release from jail a pre-condition before signing the agreement.

A decree posted on the Ukrainian government’s website said it was suspending the “process of preparation” for the agreement “with the aim of adopting measures to ensure national (economic) security”. The decision, it said, was motivated by a need to bolster economic ties with Russia.

Russia had been putting pressure on Kiev to abandon the deal with the EU, hoping instead to attract Ukraine into a customs union with it and other former Soviet states. Today Ukraine’s President Viktor Yanukovich proposed a trilateral trade commission made up of Ukraine, the EU and Russia.

Hours earlier in parliament, members of Yanukovich’s party voted against granting his political rival Tymoshenko leave from prison to receive treatment from reported chronic back pain. She is serving a seven-year sentence for abuse of power over an energy deal with Russia but the European Commission, as well as Tymoshenko’s supporters at home, believe her conviction was politically motivated. Members of opposition parties shouted “shame” after the vote. Those from Tymoshenko’s ‘Fatherland’ party wore white T-shirts bearing the slogan Freedom to Ukraine, while members of boxer-turned-politician Vladimir Klitschko’s UDAR party wore red T-shirts that read Ukraine is Europe.
http://www.euronews.com/2013/11/22/ukraine-thousands-gather-in-kyiv-for-pro-eu-rally/

Thousands of people have gathered on the streets of Kyiv in protest at the Ukrainian government’s u-turn on a long-planned EU trade pact – and the talk of strengthening ties with Russia instead.

Jailed former prime minister Yuliya Tymoshenko and Opposition leader Vitali Kitschko have called for people to fill the streets until Sunday, November 24, the ninth anniversary of the Orange Revolution.

Taking part in the demonstration, Kiltschko told reporters: “Our main task is to get united because we are united by the desire to live in a better country. What do we have to do? Every one of us has to bring 20, 40, 100 people here. And then, if there are a lot of us, we can go and demand.”

Ukraine’s government defended the suspension of negotiations with the EU in a parliamentary session earlier, calling it a purely “economic” decision.
And a very interesting opinion article:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5e7c0b0c-5394-11e3-b425-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2lba6mHyf
 
#180 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-02-21/martial-law-a-possibility-for-ukraine-before-deal/

Martial law a 'possibility' for Ukraine before deal
- last updated Fri 21 Feb 2014

World
Ukraine
Poland

Poland's Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski (centre) with other delegates after the deal was agreed. Photo: Reuters

Poland's Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski was at the centre of negotiations between the Ukrainian government and opposition leaders.

Earlier in the day, the diplomat was overheard telling a Ukrainian opposition leader: "If you don't support this [deal] you'll have martial law, you'll have the army. You will all be dead."

He later told ITV News' Europe Editor James Mates that martial law in Ukraine was a "real possibility" and interior troops were being "readied" up until an agreement was signed.

The foreign minister told ITV News: "Well, as you can see it's almost miraculous. Within minutes of the agreement being signed the riot police are leaving."

The EU-brokered deal concluded that Ukraine will hold an early presidential election and will return to its 2004 constitution with reduced powers for President Yanukovich.
 
#183 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-02-21/martial-law-a-possibility-for-ukraine-before-deal/

Martial law a 'possibility' for Ukraine before deal
- last updated Fri 21 Feb 2014

World
Ukraine
Poland

Poland's Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski (centre) with other delegates after the deal was agreed. Photo: Reuters

Poland's Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski was at the centre of negotiations between the Ukrainian government and opposition leaders.

Earlier in the day, the diplomat was overheard telling a Ukrainian opposition leader: "If you don't support this [deal] you'll have martial law, you'll have the army. You will all be dead."

He later told ITV News' Europe Editor James Mates that martial law in Ukraine was a "real possibility" and interior troops were being "readied" up until an agreement was signed.

The foreign minister told ITV News: "Well, as you can see it's almost miraculous. Within minutes of the agreement being signed the riot police are leaving."

The EU-brokered deal concluded that Ukraine will hold an early presidential election and will return to its 2004 constitution with reduced powers for President Yanukovich.
I know of his words, but these are old news. It is of yesterday.
Today everything is resolved. In Kiev.
 
#184 ·
#188 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://censor.net.ua/news/272255/ya...uda_letet_ni_odna_strana_mira_ne_gotova_ego_prinyat_a_garantiyi_ot_putina_on_ne
Source can be trusted. ys will read, for the rest I will translate.
As I earlier said, no country in the world can accept Yanukovich. He is indeed in Kharkov. He called Putin. Putin did not allow him to flee in Russia.
He wanted to separate East regions, but failed. Even East is with us, with Kiev. So happy about that. We seem to have totally defeated that moron.
 
#190 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://censor.net.ua/news/272255/ya...uda_letet_ni_odna_strana_mira_ne_gotova_ego_prinyat_a_garantiyi_ot_putina_on_ne
Source can be trusted. ys will read, for the rest I will translate.
As I earlier said, no country in the world can accept Yanukovich. He is indeed in Kharkov. He called Putin. Putin did not allow him to flee in Russia.
Putin never gives up his people. Just means that Yanukovich has never been considered a real ally by Putin. I guess, he played too many games, with his initial anti-Custom Union/pro-EU drivel, and latest flip-flop.
My guess, before Yanukovich called Putin, Putin managed to talk to the next President of Ukraine, his old buddy Yulia. And probably they have a plan and Yanukovich being saved by Putin is not a part of that plan.
 
#193 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

revolution is not so popular in Crimea I guess

You see, they have a funny dilemma. They and most of East hate West and generally Kiev authorities wholeheartedly. But for that they need to back up Yanukovich. Because that's the only alternative to recognizing new Kiev power. And they dislike Yanukovich now too very much.
 
#196 · (Edited)
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

What a dramatic day of events in Ukraine :speakles: Where to even start.

1) Yanukovych - He is finished. It's amusing to hear him say he is still the legitimate pres and is not going to resign. That is what power does to a person. Let's hope he can help speed up the transition of power by releasing his grip on his claim to the presidency and ask for a pardon or something. He's incredibly rich. Him and his sons (one of which is a billionaire "dentist" lol) don't need any more government contracts. Just go away and stay away. Unfortunately for him I don't think he can go back to his palace on the outskirts of Kiev...The protesters seemed to have beaten him to it lol Btw, why are people automatically assuming that the house was built with taxpayers money? I just don't think it's right to invade someone's property like that unless it is proven that they acquired it through fraud/ criminal conduct etc. But that is just a small thing and really doesn't compare to all the bad things this wannabe dictator has done.

2) Tymoshenko - Wow.

Image


It didn't take long to free her. I thought decriminalising the acts she was accused of had to be signed into law by the president? So now in the Ukraine there is no executive branch of the government? Anyway I'm glad she is finally free. It was clear from day 1 that her prosecution had more to do with Yanukovych wanting to eliminate powerful opponents than some flimsy "crime" of overstepping her authority in signing the gas deal which by the way happened in broad daylight rather than in secret or for personal gain. I wonder what the poor judge who effectively carried out Yanukovych's orders must be doing now...Shitting bricks more like it. I hope Yulia is not vindictive enough to come after him. He was just following orders.

She's moving way too fast. She didn't even wait one day to get herself ready...to digest what has happened and to prepare and present herself as a uniter...someone who can bridge the gap between the east and the west. She played to the crowd in Kiev. She was on point. Said what they wanted to hear, but did she say what 47 million Ukrainians want to hear? I'm not so sure. She really should not have even mentioned the EU on her release from Kharkiv. Whilst the majority of the protesters and vast swathes of the west (and me by the way) want closer ties with Europe, there is still a sizeable number of people who identify more with Russia. It should not be a choice of Europe vs Russia. Ukraine should be striving to create friendly and profitable relations with both. That is what the next few presidents will have to try and manage. It's a tricky balance especially with Putin throwing his weight around. By the way the Russian constitution is pretty whack if it allows the same guys to run for the office of the presidency and PM over and over again. Looks like Putin is effectively the president/ PM for life :lol:

Back to Yulia. She looks ill. Is she seriously considering running for the presidency in 3 months time? How on earth will she stand the rigours of the campaign trail? This is what I mean by saying she is moving too fast. She wants Ukraine to be the best country it can be so badly she just doesn't trust that anyone other than her can do the job. Someone needs to face up to the oligarchs. At the moment I think she is the only one. That is why they hate her so much. It's a very dangerous game and one hopes she is up to the challenge. As for her relationship with Putin. lol at the suggestions that they are "buddies". Yes she is a tough and intelligent leader that can be trusted to hold her end of the bargain but she is also fiercely pro EU. That trumps everything else. Moscow will try and find an alternative puppet who can play to the sensibilities of the pro Russia crowd in the east of the country and hope that the opposition leaders divide the pro EU vote enabling the 2nd coming of a stronger "Yanukovych" candidate to emerge and win the presidency. Russia does not want Yulia as the president if they can help it, but will have no choice but to deal with her if no credible pro Russia candidate emerges.

What I did not understand is what she meant by the protesters not going home but continuing with the protests until real change happens. The people are tired. Businesses need to restart. Life needs to resume in Kiev. The dictator is gone. The protesters need to go home to their families and back to work. Central Kiev needs to be cleaned up. The police force and the rest of civil service need to do their job. the next stage of the revolution is the parliamentary and presidential elections. It is there where real change can begin, not on the streets. I think she's been out of the loop for so long that she probably said the 1st thing that popped into her mind. If she is to be president she will want to lead a functioning civil society and that resumes with issues being decided on the ballot and round tables than the streets. Good luck Yulia. You're going to need it ;)
 
#197 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

What a dramatic day of events in Ukraine :speakles: Where to even start.

The people are tired. Businesses need to restart. Life needs to resume in Kiev. The dictator is gone. The protesters need to go home to their families and back to work. Central Kiev needs to be cleaned up. The police force and the rest of civil service need to do their job. the next stage of the revolution is the parliamentary and presidential elections.
Yes! If Yanukovych is not in power why fight still?

Really the best thing people can do is forget and work together.

If I was the President of Ukraine, I would issue a National Clean-Up Day. All the garbage trucks of Ukraine should come to Kiev and police, riot police, civilians, etc, all come together to clean up Kiev.

Life needs to get back to normal.
 
#203 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://www.vz.ru/world/2014/2/24/674061.html

If this is correct Tymoshenko is likely to lose election. 60% of public distrust her now. Her win would depend on who she's running against. Dobkin wants to be run, but after that lame attempt at separatism he has no chance. Likely candidate from Party of regions is Tihipko. And we also have Klitchko, Tyagnibok and Poroshenko.
 
#206 · (Edited)
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Yes the real problem in Ukraine and many in east Europe is that they envy both the west and the east.. They are stuck in the middle with no hope.. They are not Germany and they are not Russia..

Now The EU will give money to Ukraine.. The US will send Nato.. That leaves the Eastern Ukrainians defeated without any hope, will make them angry.. Then after another 5 years another trouble in Ukraine but this time in East Ukraine.. The decision to delete the Russian language which is spoken by most Eastern Ukrainians was stupid..

The US won't actually gain much after the press made it a juvenile revenge against Putin.. Even gaining South Korea didn't finish China.. The situation will just make Russia sides more with China.. Will make the world look at USA as an opportunist who is not willing to cooperate with a whole big country cause they are not liking their leader.. That US is a hungry enemy who should never be trusted..

The US press are making the case as a revenge for Syria, acting like Russia is a threat to the world.. But Putin saved the world from terrorists gaining another area.. The idea of a western war on Syria when we all know what will happen next.. just crazy even more crazy than Iraq war.. I just don't get the Russia hate, it is a better country now than the 90s.. Is that something that makes US mad? Should all countries be poor waiting for Nato to save? At least they are not asking the west to give them money, isn't this supposed to be good?

I want to add that I like Russia a lot, but I think Russian authorities should try to heal the wounds and try to understand why many youth in Eastern European countries have grudge against Russians, part of it is that they have higher aspirations than their actual circumstances, part of it western intervention, part of it is that they may simply envy Russia.. But You are always stuck with neighbors, it is not good to make them feel so inferior.. Same words to Ukrainians, Russians are their neighbors..

I don't know how the situation will end.. Hope it ends with peace.. But don't think so.. I smell another cold war.. Do you think I should prepare for that as an Eastern girl? What should I do? :confused:
 
#208 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Yes the real problem in Ukraine and many in east Europe is that they envy both the west and the east.. They are stuck in the middle with no hope.. They are not Germany and they are not Russia..

Now The EU will give money to Ukraine.. The US will send Nato.. That leaves the Eastern Ukrainians defeated without any hope, will make them angry.. Then after another 5 years another trouble in Ukraine but this time in East Ukraine.. The decision to delete the Russian language which is spoken by most Eastern Ukrainians was stupid..

The US won't actually gain much after they made it a juvenile revenge against Putin.. Even gaining South Korea didn't finish China.. The situation will just make Russia sides more with China.. Will make the world look at USA as an opportunist who is not willing to cooperate with a whole big country cause they are not liking their leader.. That US is a hungry enemy who should never be trusted..

The US press are making the case as a revenge for Syria, acting like Russia is a threat to the world.. But Putin saved the world from terrorists gaining another area.. The idea of a western war on Syria when we all know what will happen next.. just crazy even more crazy than Iraq war.. I just don't get the Russia hate, it is a better country now than the 90s.. Is that something that makes US mad? Should all countries be poor waiting for Nato to save? At least they are not asking the west to give them money, isn't this supposed to be good?

I want to add that I like Russia a lot, but I think Russian authorities should try to heal the wounds and try to understand why many youth in Eastern European countries have grudge against Russians, part of it is that they have higher aspirations than their actual circumstances, part of it western intervention, part of it is that they may simply envy Russia.. But You are always stuck with neighbors, it is not good to make them feel so inferior.. Same words to Ukrainians, Russians are their neighbors..

I don't know how the situation will end.. Hope it ends with peace.. But don't think so.. I smell another cold war.. Do you think I should prepare for that as an Eastern girl? What should I do? :confused:
What are you arguing?
 
#212 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/art...n/article/bulgaria-slams-ukraine-for-canceling-the-status-of-bulgarian-language

Sofia Protests Ukraine's Blow to Bulgarian

Ukraine's decision to withdraw recognition of Bulgarian as a regional language has upset Bulgaria.
Novinite.com

At the meeting in Budapest of Foreign Ministers of the Visegrad Group - Bulgaria, Romania and Greece - Bulgarian Foreign Minister Kristian Vigenin expressed dissatisfaction over Ukraine's decision to cancel recognition of Bulgarian as a regional language.

“The current political leaders in Ukraine must demonstrate responsibility and strive for inclusion of all groups in the Ukrainian society with respect for human rights and the rule of law,” he said.

Last week, parliament in strife-torn Ukraine canceled the State Language Policy Act, which granted “regional language” status to all languages of minority groups that make up more than 10 per cent of the population in a given area.

The decision mainly affects dispersed communities of Russian-speakers spread all over the country.

However, it also impacts on compact Bulgarian communities living in some areas of southern Ukraine, mostly in Artsiz, Izmail and Bolgrad, where Bulgarian was granted the status of a regional language.
 
#213 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Ukraine Oligarchs Prepared for Yanukovych Fall

The protesters in Kiev were largely responsible for the fall of the Ukrainian president. But his way out of office was paved by two of the country's most powerful oligarchs. Made rich by Viktor Yanukovych, the pair made early preparations for his departure.

Nobody told Ukrainian parliamentarian Yuri Blagodir that you had to be physically fit to be a representative. But last Thursday, the ability to run fast suddenly became a key skill. Just before 10 a.m., the parliament in Kiev was finally assembling in an effort to find a way out of the spiraling chaos that had gripped the country. Then came the order to clear the building.

ANZEIGE
Gunfire rang out, explosions shook the government quarter and special police and secret service units rushed to the scene. The opposition, it was said, intended to storm the parliament and the seat of government.

Blagodir, 40, ran up the street along with the other parliamentarians, away from the city center and away from the parliament building. They felt like they were running for their lives -- a pack of representatives being hunted by the people they represented.

It was afternoon before they returned to their workplace and the greatly anticipated special session only began at 5 p.m. For Yuri Blagodir, the session was of particular importance. Just a day earlier, he had still been a member of the Party of Regions, the governing party led by President Viktor Yanukovych.

Thursday was to be the first day of his new political life. A day prior, he had posted the following on his website: "The events of the last three months have shown that the official response to the crisis can only lead to civil war and the disintegration of the state." He joined three other Party of Regions members in renouncing their membership. A day later, 10 more representatives turned their backs on Yanukovych and huge numbers of functionaries across the country did the same.

It marked the beginning of the rapid end of Yanukovych's grip on power. It was his worst-case scenario: By the end of the day on Thursday, a third of his parliamentarians had abandoned him.

The reason was clear. Civil war no longer seemed merely a theoretical possibility. Snipers had opened fire on protesters in the city center, killing dozens with shots to the head, neck or chest. Over 50 people were killed on the streets of Kiev that day -- a day which was supposed to be one of mourning for the protesters who lost their lives that Tuesday. In total, according to Ukrainian authorities, 88 people died in the conflict last week.

An Understanding with the Oligarchs

As government loyalists and protesters battled it out on and around Independence Square, the rest of the city was ghostly silent. The subway was closed, as were shops, restaurants and banks. Only ambulances sped through the city streets. In front of the Radisson Hotel, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski climbed into a car to drive with his counterparts Frank-Walter Steinmeier, from Germany, and Laurent Fabius, of France, to a meeting with Yanukovych in an effort to re-establish peace.

Parliamentarians, meanwhile, began debating a crisis solution of their own -- even as others were pouring oil onto the fire. The country's secret service head demanded that the battle against the "terrorists" be fought to the bitter end. And former head of government Yulia Tymoschenko, still locked up in Kharkiv at the time, said that the many deaths in Kiev were the result of "negotiations with the dictatorship that were hopeless from the outset." It was essentially a call for a violent overthrow.

Yet by then, it had long since become clear that a solution to the crisis would not be found on Independence Square. Nor would it come from Moscow, Washington, Berlin or Brussels. Rather, it would have to come from parliament -- together with those people who had supported the president. The opposition was faced with the prospect of winning them over in order to establish a political majority.

More than anything, though, the opposition had to reach an understanding with the two men who controlled roughly half of Yanukovych's party: Rinat Akhmetov and Dmitry Firtash, the two most influential oligarchs in the country.

"The two knew that, were Yanukovych to fall, they would be the biggest losers. That is why they did everything to prevent the radical solution sought by the protesters on the Maidan," says Vadim Karasev. Karasev was an advisor to President Viktor Yushchenko, who came to office following the 2004 Orange Revolution only to lose it a short time later due to deep differences with his one-time ally Tymoshenko. Currently, Karasev heads up one of Ukraine's most important think tanks.

Our meeting with Karasev took place in an empty café at the Premier Palace Hotel, across from where Kiev's Lenin monument stood until it was pulled down by radical nationalists in December. "If Yanukovych had attempted to solve the crisis with violence, he would have lost, but the oligarchs would have too," Karasev says. "Tymoshenko would have replaced him immediately and then we would have seen a repeat of what happened after the Orange Revolution: the dispossession of the rich. But all of Ukrainian politics depends on them. The men who became rich thanks to Yanukovych want guarantees for their holdings."

Pulling Strings

Akhmetov and Firtash: Those two names have repeatedly surfaced in Kiev in recent weeks. But they have been careful to stay out of the spotlight and declined interview requests. It was reported over the weekend that they were both in London. Still, they both have been busy pulling strings in recent weeks.

Akhmetov is the more important of the two. The 47-year-old is worth $15 billion and is head of the holdings company System Capital Management, which controls more than 100 companies with some 300,000 employees. They include metallurgical and pipe factories, banks, real estate firms, mobile phone enterprises and a large media company. He is the de-facto ruler of Donbass, the home of Ukrainian heavy industry, and owns the football team Shakhtar Donetsk. He is also among the leaders of Yanukovych's Party of Regions.

In recent weeks, Ukrainian protesters have staked out houses of his in both Donetsk and London. They held up signs reading: "Just one phone call from him and the killing will stop."

Only once did Akhmetov show himself to the protesters. He drove up in his Mercedes and told them that he was prepared to talk. The worst for him, he said, would be if he "could no longer walk through Donetsk and breathe Ukrainian air." Akhmetov, who started "at zero" 25 years ago, as he likes to emphasize, didn't want to belong to the losers.

He comes from a poor mining family. "We lived in just 20 square meters (215 square feet) and had no toilet or sink at home," he has said. But then, at the beginning of the 1990s, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, he made his first million trading coal in the mining city of Donetsk.

Nobody knew him at the time. He only entered the spotlight when Akhat Bragin, who was president of the Shakhtar football team at the time, was assassinated in an explosion during a game in 1995. Bragin was the godfather of Donetsk.

Akhmetov had had business dealings with Bragin and became his successor at Shakhtar. Just before, he had founded his first bank in Donetsk. He later said that he became rich via "a few risky deals immediately after the disintegration of the Soviet Union."

A short time later, the former automobile mechanic Viktor Yanukovych, previously convicted of robbery and assault, was named head of the Donetsk regional government. A business relationship developed between him and Akhmetov -- one which ultimately blossomed into a friendship. When Yanukovych became head of government in Kiev in 2002, Akhmetov's career looked to be on the rise.

The Rise

The budding oligarch of course went on to back Yanukovych's 2004 presidential candidacy. But when he failed -- after seeking to ride Russian support and clumsy electoral fraud to the presidency, and touching off the Orange Revolution in the process -- things began looking grim for Akhmetov as well. The country's new leadership, under Yushchenko, began confiscating parts of his steel conglomerate, accusing him of having obtained them illegally.

Then, in 2005, he was accused of involvement in economic crimes and police began raiding his properties and offices. He fled to Monaco and stayed there for a time, avoiding the unpleasantness at home. Ultimately, though, he returned and became a key sponsor of Yanukovych's Party of Regions. When Yanukovych finally did become head of state in 2010, the future looked bright for Akhmetov.

The second oligarch, Dmitry Firtash, 47, followed a similar path to his riches. After serving in the army, he became a fireman and began his business career with a deal that profited him $50,000: In Hong Kong, he traded 4,000 tons of evaporated milk from Ukraine for cotton from Uzbekistan.

Later, he went to Moscow where he lived in the Rossiya Hotel in Moscow, located across from the Kremlin. It is where Soviet businesspeople gathered and while there, he got to know key players in the Turkmen natural gas industry. He quickly entered the trade, receiving natural gas in exchange for foodstuffs.

He too advanced quickly. He bought a chemical factory in Estonia and later purchased an Austrian firm which specialized in natural gas transportation. In 2004, he joined the Russian gas company Gazprom in opening the company RosUkrEnergo, which specialized in transporting natural gas to Western Europe.

It was this company which later put him at odds with the Orange Revolution: A dubious 2009 deal between Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and her Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin ruined Firtash's business. He and Tymoshenko became bitter enemies.

When Yanukovych ascended to power, it was good for Firtash as well. He expanded his empire and today, with his media conglomerate Inter Media Group, controls several television channels.

There are, of course, differences between Akhmetov and Firtash. For one, Firtash is worth less than a billion dollars, in contrast to the monumentally rich Akhmetov. Furthermore, he works closely with partners in Russia whereas Akhmetov's business empire is more focused on Europe. But the two have divided the political playing field between them and they control their country's political scene as though it were a business joint venture. Key positions, whether in ministries or in parliament, are all occupied by their people. Yanukovych's economics minister, for example, came from Akhmetov's team while the deputy prime minister, in charge of natural gas issues, answered to Firtash. It is a loveless marriage of convenience, but it has held.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...rope/how-oligarchs-in-ukraine-prepared-for-the-fall-of-yanukovych-a-955328.html
 
#214 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Letting Yanukovych Fall

Last Tuesday's bloody conflicts tipped the scales. On Wednesday both Akhmetov's and Firtash's TV stations changed their coverage of Independence Square: Suddenly the two channels, Ukraina and Inter, were reporting objectively on the opposition. The message of the oligarchs was clear: We're letting Yanukovych fall.

And in parliament -- where the majority party had barely budged a millimeter in the past weeks -- the mood suddenly changed: Suddenly they were looking for a compromise after all. It became clear on Thursday what this would mean: the forming of a broad coalition, the return of the old constitution and, with it, a reduction of the presidential powers as well as an accelerated presidential election.

Friday was a cheerful day, with bright blue skies. There was still sporadic gunfire but on Independence Square it was hard to believe that, just a few days earlier, people had been gunned down there.

Shortly after noon Yanukovych addressed the people as though he were still calling the shots. He declared that he would "initiate" new elections, constitutional reform and the formation of a new government with national support. Then, things began moving very fast. On Friday evening, parliament got back its full former powers, dismissed the hated interior minister and ultimately Yanukovych himself and smoothed the way for the release of Yulia Tymoshenko.
 
#215 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Sorry for late and short response. I value every opinion but I can't answer to everyone. Plus the situation changes too quickly. I will try to come back to many posts.

- Yanukovich has been seen in a restaurant in Moscow. I don't want to comment this.
- We may lose Crimea, regardless of the people's of Crimea, in their vast majority, will.
- I thought it will be getting better. I was wrong. The situation keeps being awful.
- For gulzhan: You misunderstood me: I live in Ukraine, when I work outside I am with Ukraine, daily, but in the recent months hourly.
- I think that parliamentary republic is better for Ukraine.
- Timoshenko will not be in any kind of power <- people told so.
- That pic from ys. Is it accurate, more or less. The East is widely subsidized from Kiev. Ahkmetov's and Co plants are subsidized because they don't buy gas for the prices that are the market ones. The people pay more. It differs from region to region, but, say, we purchase gas in Russia for 100 units, for Ahmetov it's 50, for the people it's 150. Ahmetov's difference is always covered from Kiev.
- The language, again. Idiotic mistake by repealing that law. It has never functioned. The documentation was allowed to be made in Russian but it didn't work, because they had to bring it in fiscal and other institutions in Ukrainian.
To live for 23 years in Ukraine and to be unable to get the language that is so similar to their native, Russian, could mean that a person is:
A) mentally handicapped -- treatment needed in this case
B) hates Ukraine with its language
The B case prevails, of course. But those are a percent of the population there at max.
Let's get back to ordinal life, forget those unhappy with Ukraine because of the language whatnot.
I so don't like to repeat something I said more than twice, but ok, maybe because of my English I was not heard. There were never complications with people who talk differently. The usual thing between people who has just met each other is -- to switch to a lang the opponent used. For friends, known, relatives is common when one talks Russian and another one Ukrainian.
- The currency keep being devalued. They promised one numbers, we are getting another and it keeps falling.
I can go on but out of time really. The situation in Ukraine is terrible.
You can read everything in the press you trust. Just skip all that ends in a .ru domain. If objectivity, even relative, is a goal.
 
#216 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Sorry for late and short response. I value every opinion but I can't answer to everyone. Plus the situation changes too quickly. I will try to come back to many posts.

- Yanukovich has been seen in a restaurant in Moscow. I don't want to comment this.
- We may lose Crimea, regardless of the people's of Crimea, in their vast majority, will.
- I thought it will be getting better. I was wrong. The situation keeps being awful.
- For gulzhan: You misunderstood me: I live in Ukraine, when I work outside I am with Ukraine, daily, but in the recent months hourly.
- I think that parliamentary republic is better for Ukraine.
- Timoshenko will not be in any kind of power <- people told so.
- That pic from ys. Is it accurate, more or less. The East is widely subsidized from Kiev. Ahkmetov's and Co plants are subsidized because they don't buy gas for the prices that are the market ones. The people pay more. It differs from region to region, but, say, we purchase gas in Russia for 100 units, for Ahmetov it's 50, for the people it's 150. Ahmetov's difference is always covered from Kiev.
- The language, again. Idiotic mistake by repealing that law. It has never functioned. The documentation was allowed to be made in Russian but it didn't work, because they had to bring it in fiscal and other institutions in Ukrainian.
To live for 23 years in Ukraine and to be unable to get the language that is so similar to their native, Russian, could mean that a person is:
A) mentally handicapped -- treatment needed in this case
B) hates Ukraine with its language
The B case prevails, of course. But those are a percent of the population there at max.
Let's get back to ordinal life, forget those unhappy with Ukraine because of the language whatnot.
I so don't like to repeat something I said more than twice, but ok, maybe because of my English I was not heard. There were never complications with people who talk differently. The usual thing between people who has just met each other is -- to switch to a lang the opponent used. For friends, known, relatives is common when one talks Russian and another one Ukrainian.
- The currency keep being devalued. They promised one numbers, we are getting another and it keeps falling.
I can go on but out of time really. The situation in Ukraine is terrible.
You can read everything in the press you trust. Just skip all that ends in a .ru domain. If objectivity, even relative, is a goal.

Post-revolutionary years is always bad and dangerous. There are many examples in History.
 
#219 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

If I were Putin, I would just say that whoever is in Kiev now is illegitimate, we don't recognize them, we recognize the legitimately elected President Yanukovich. Legally, this is a bulletproof position. That's the scenario I mentioned a week ago. We'll see.
I don't think Ukraine needs Crimea more than Serbia does not need Kosovo. Once the rules are broken, there is no more rules.. Of course, the nuclear weapon background is funny, as Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for written territorial integrity and defense guarantees from USA and Russia. I guess they miss those weapons now. It's also another ( #9, in last couple fo decades, I guess ) lesson for others like Iran. Do not have nukes, and they can do anything to you. Have them, and you are impenetrable, like N. Korea.
 
#236 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

ssin!!
Thank you, friend!
And btw I got the "U se i u svoje kljuse";)

I don't think Ukraine needs Crimea more than Serbia does not need Kosovo.
You better apologize for this.
And Serbia and Kosovo is much much a different and difficult case.

Very arrogant, don't you think?
Somehow in Canada they live just fine in bilingual environment. And no one forces anyone to know any language. Simply because they learnt to respect each other and that's good enough. Two state languages, two cultures. Same in Belgium. But in Ukraine people who lived all their lives to their 50s or 60s and never saw a need to know Ukrainian now have to be classified as either retarded or Ukraine-haters, because they don't know Ukrainian. I'd say, it is a very arrogant position.
I don't.
French-Dutch. French-English. French-German-Italian. Ukrainian-Russian.
Guess one that doesn't fit the list. If you can't-- end of conversation.

----
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...an-actions-in-crimea/2014/02/28/7b93b7c0-a09d-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html
Condemnation isn’t enough for Russian actions in Crimea
By Editorial Board, Saturday, March 1, 3:04 AM

PRESIDENT OBAMA made an unscheduled appearance before the press at the White House Friday to warn Russia against a military intervention in Ukraine, which he said would be a “clear violation” of Russia’s commitments to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity as well as of international law. But the president made no mention of consequences other than international “condemnation” and unspecified “costs” — and Russian President Vladi*mir Putin is unlikely to be deterred by that.

Mr. Obama also spoke in the conditional, referring to “reports of military movements.” But by late Friday it was clear that Russian forces were operating across Crimea, a southern region of Ukraine made up mostly of Russian speakers and that hosts Russia’s Black Sea fleet. Journalists broadcast images of Russian transport planes, helicopters and columns of armored personnel carriers penetrating the region. Ukraine’s acting president decried an “invasion.”

The West responded with phone calls. The Kremlin said Mr. Putin spoke to British Prime Minister David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and Secretary of State John F. Kerry called Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Mr. Lavrov protested that Russia was not violating its commitment to Ukraine’s territorial integrity, and Mr. Kerry was not ready to contradict him. “The question is whether or not what is happening now might be crossing a line in any way, and we’re going to be very careful in making our judgments about that,” he told reporters. Again, hardly likely to alter Mr. Putin’s calculations.

Perhaps it was difficult for U.S. intelligence to discern Friday exactly what the Russian forces — some of which wore no identification — were doing. But Mr. Putin’s likely objective was not difficult to figure. He appears to be responding to Ukraine’s overthrow of its pro-Kremlin government last week with an old and ugly Russian tactic: provoking a separatist rebellion in a neighboring state, using its own troops when necessary.

“Frozen conflicts” created by Moscow in the territory of the former Soviet Union already include the Transnistria region of Moldova and the Georgian provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Russia invaded in 2008. For Moscow, the incursions have the benefit of establishing dominion over strategic strips of territory while destabilizing the countries to which they nominally belong. Stripping Ukraine of Crimea would be Mr. Putin’s way of putting his foot on the neck of the country’s fragile interim government, which is already facing a severe economic crisis.

As Mr. Obama noted, it would also be a blatant violation of Russia’s commitments, including the 1994 Budapest memorandum, in which Moscow pledged to the United States and Britain that it would respect Ukraine’s independence and borders in exchange for the removal of its nuclear weapons. It could create another chronic trouble spot in Europe — particularly as Crimea’s population includes a large minority of Ukrainian speakers as well as Crimean Tatars, a Muslim group that rejects Russian rule.

Mr. Obama and European leaders must act quickly to prevent Ukraine’s dismemberment. Missing from the president’s statement was a necessary first step: a demand that all Russian forces — regular and irregular — be withdrawn from all parts of Crimea outside the Sevastopol naval base and that Moscow recognize the authority of the Kiev government in the region. If Mr. Putin does not comply, Western leaders should make clear that Russia will pay a heavy price — not just in “condemnation,” but in economic and diplomatic sanctions.
Obama showed no real support and immediately in much increased pace Putin continued to occupy our country.
We are losing our people and our territory now. Watch news, it's fun for many of you.
 
#225 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

In my opinion, Russia will continue to intervene and the US alliance won't do much. Unless it's literally taken, I can't see them bothering. Also, I believe Yanukovich still has a legitimate claim to the presidency. He was elected democratically and ratted out of his own country. Whatever the circumstances, he needs to be removed democratically - not by, for lack of a better word - extremists.
 
#227 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

In my opinion, Russia will continue to intervene and the US alliance won't do much. Unless it's literally taken, I can't see them bothering. Also, I believe Yanukovich still has a legitimate claim to the presidency. He was elected democratically and ratted out of his own country. Whatever the circumstances, he needs to be removed democratically - not by, for lack of a better word - extremists.
Exactly. And it was just an year away. The Maidan idiocy is probably the most devastating blow that could have been made to Ukraine. I still can not grasp that people do not understand. Just like they do not understand that no one longer cares about EU shit, and that the Kiev junta just runs with their nationalist anti-Russian agenda. And nothing else. This will escalate.
Even after they illegitimately took power from Yanukovich, things still could have been turned right. Russia was waiting. Freeing Yulia was the right move. If new guys would only make it clear that they have no anti-Russian prejudice, no anti-Russian agenda, and all they want is to remove hte corrupted government, Russia could have worked with them. But instead they - from the get-go - started running exclusively anti-Russian agenda with some cheap revenge acts like repeal of language law. Very anti-Russian language of every official statement. From the very first moment it was made clear to Russia that the new government is an enemy of everything Russian. Spare me the question for why. I have no idea. Personally, I think, because they all are either liberal idiots or ultra-nationalists. But Putin is a kind of guy that loves the challenge. So, we'll see.
 
#228 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

To be frank, this situation shouldn't be hinging on pro-Russian or anti-Russian rhetoric. Whether Ukraine is pro-EU or pro-Russia should not matter.

What matters to me is processes being followed democratically and not radically outside of the law. Surely if Yanukovich was so despised he could have been removed immediately in a legitimate matter. Australia has done it before - the removal of Gough Whitlam by our Governer General. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis
 
#232 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Yanukovych was removed legitimately from power. The legislature has the right to do this and they unanimously decided to kick him out. Even ministers from his own party. He cannot carry out the duties of the executive. Let's stop with all the pro Yanukovych rhetoric. If someone is destroying the country people need not wait until the next election cycle to remove them whether they got to their position legitimately or not.

The only problem here is Russia trying to illegally intervene in a sovereign country's internal affairs. This is all thanks to Obama's weak leadership. I rather doubt Putin would be doing this if the war crazed cowboy president Bush was still in power. Russia now thinks it can do whatever it wants because it has no real opposition. Sending tanks to another country is so 20th century. They have no business being there. Ukrainians of Russian descent are not being persecuted. Putin is just using the pro Russian demonstrations in Crimea as a pretext for doing what he's probably wanted to do for a long time. So uncivilized. I'm sick of this mentality. It's so barbarian. The EU did not send in troops to defend the pro Europe protesters when Yanukovych decided to turn back the clock and make Ukraine Russian's lapdog once more. For better or worse Ukraine must be free from Russia's clutches. It's too heavy a price to pay.

All the issues can and must be resolved within the Ukraine. I did think those in power in Kiev were really stupid for ignoring the rest of the country and basically treating Kiev as if it was the rest of the country. Instead of antagonising Russian Ukrainians they should have gone to the east to garner their support and assure them that the goal was and has always been the preservation and promotion of Ukraine's territorial, economic and political independence. I was really disappointed in Timoshenko for not taking the lead in trying to unite the peoples of her country. She really should have taken time to assess the situation and seek to stabilise the country before going off on the Ukraine being destined to join the EU. Same thing with all those in parliament.

I believe all will be well and do not buy all the doom and gloom on this thread. Bottom line is that Ukraine is and must remain a united sovereign state. Whatever it takes to achieve this must be done. Stay positive sweetkit. Even now, there are plenty of good things in Ukraine you could be giving the majority of your attention to. The removal of Y was a positive thing. Not a negative. He might have rigged the elections in a years time anyway. He's done it before. These are the birth pains of a new and stronger Ukraine. Now you're being given an opportunity to redefine yourselves afresh. It will not always be like this. You cannot see it yet but a day will come when Ukraine is free to associate with whomever it chooses and when the oligarchs and fanatics no longer run the show.
 
#235 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Yanukovych was removed legitimately from power. The legislature has the right to do this and they unanimously decided to kick him out. Even ministers from his own party. He cannot carry out the duties of the executive. Let's stop with all the pro Yanukovych rhetoric. If someone is destroying the country people need not wait until the next election cycle to remove them whether they got to their position legitimately or not.
This is fine if that's the case. Just the way it went down, him going into hiding and fleeing - didn't look like it was following a process or anything.

If it's in their law to be able remove him the way they did, then good riddance.
 
#233 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Yanukovich is an idiot and a criminal, I think that's something that 90% of the people in Ukraine would agree with, so there is some common ground. I suspect that even Putin himself had long considered the man an idiot and pain in the ass. Yulia was actually better partner for Russians, if we put aside the question of her being corrupt too, and to what extent.

I think Russia will be careful. If I was in Putin's shoes, I would wait for elections and then I would turn over Yanukovich to Ukrainians. That would be a great move, I don't know how probable it is. Sticking to that man to prove anything is a lost cause. Fuck him. He stole and cheated, but killing his own people automatically took all possible legitimacy from him, there's no way to save him.That's one great move for Russians to do, while at the some time calming ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Ukrainian destiny however is in good relations with Russia or permanent turmoil, not because Russia would mess up things, but because Ukraine itself is too connected with Russia, history, language, relatives, it's hard to imagine two nations historically and ethnically closer than Russians and Ukrainians. Anti-Russian sentiment will lead Ukraine nowhere, I'm afraid. But in times of 'revolutions' strange people always appear at the surface.

I don't believe that's the true spirit of what happened in Ukraine. Sweetkit explained what it is about, I think.
 
#240 ·
Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

okay whats going on now I dont understand is this the start of WWIII