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So Djokovic just won Laureus Sports Award with a 1 GS+ WTF + no.1 ranking season.
And if u look at the descriptions of the nominees, you could see that the WTF victory of both Djokovic and Williams are mentioned.

I think some Nadull fans downplay the importance of this event too much just because their idol cannot win it. It features the best 8 players and you cannot rely on a weak draw here. And in a time where there's no fast surface anymore, winning the indoor WTF proves that you are not a one-dimensional player.

Thus I think outsiders still rate WTF highly. Only tennis community downplays its significance and treats it as a cash event.

Now imagine if both Nadull and Federer finish their career with 17 slams. I'd still say Federer achieved more becoz 0 title in WTF is very embarrassing. It is a sign that you cannot dominate the sports on all surfaces (hence cannot even be called domination) and can only rely on rigged draw and homogenized surface in GS.

What do u think?
 

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So Djokovic just won Laureus Sports Award with a 1 GS+ WTF + no.1 ranking season.
And if u look at the descriptions of the nominees, you could see that the WTF victory of both Djokovic and Williams are mentioned.

I think some Nadull fans downplay the importance of this event too much just because their idol cannot win it. It features the best 8 players and you cannot rely on a weak draw here. And in a time where there's no fast surface anymore, winning the indoor WTF proves that you are not a one-dimensional player.

Thus I think outsiders still rate WTF highly. Only tennis community downplays its significance and treats it as a cash event.

Now imagine if both Nadull and Federer finish their career with 17 slams. I'd still say Federer achieved more becoz 0 title in WTF is very embarrassing. It is a sign that you cannot dominate the sports on all surfaces (hence cannot even be called domination) and can only rely on rigged draw and homogenized surface in GS.

What do u think?
Everything Djokovic wins gets downgraded. DC was never the same after 2010. The masters lose their value as Djokovic gets closer to completing them. I'm sure if Djokovic can get a hold of WTF record then it will most likely lose its value like many other Djokovic's acievements.
 

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WTF is a nice event but unfortunately it has a tiny draw (whether you count the total number of players involved, or just the number of round robin matches required to win the event). its lack of diversity in terms of depth of draw makes it difficult to give a big weight to

the reality is that very often players will go through tougher draws to win Master's 1000 titles than a WTF. just being realistic. not in terms of ranking of opponents, but in terms of difficulty. its a sham to think that the top 10 today is particularly dangerous, in fact people every season on this forum makes threads about 'can you believe so in so is in the top 10!? what a weak era'

the reality is that the likes of Berdych, Ferrer, Raonic, whoever- they are not generally real threats against the top few guys. also when you know the select pool of players from which you may face it allows for a lot of preparation and understanding

I think this thread is ironic because I would argue that SMALLER events, especially Master 1000 ones, where top ranked players are forced to cope with and play a mix of high and low ranked players is far more difficult. generally they come across obviously a bigger variety of TYPES of players in terms of game/style, also when you've never played someone it can be awkward. that intermixed with facing top AND lower ranked players makes for a dangerous combo

for me it will always be very impressive to win the Masters Cup, but I do feel like the entire tour (literally for the most part) outside of the top 5 or 4 guys or whatever has been weak for the past 5 or more years. when half of the players in the top 10 or top 8 or whatever are pretty much BYE's it does not make for nearly as impressive of a year end event and tournament. at least in my opinion

if this were a time of indoor specialists then I would disagree on the topic, or if possibly the guys ranked in the top 8 not named MURRAY DJOKOVIC NADAL FEDERER had any guts or possiblity to win the event, but that just is not the case

also my opinion isn't based on Nadal- I'll admit as much as his haters that the lack of a WTF win is a huge deficit in his career and one of the primary reasons (aside from the weeks at #1 total) why I do not consider Nadal on the level of Sampras yet

at any rate specifically towards the OP's title, I certainly don't think the WTF is underrated. considering its limited format/draw and the fact that there are a lot of gutless players ranked highly who switch in and out of the top 8, I certainly don't think its the pinnacle of the tour (winning the Masters Cup). in fact its kind of strange how much more difficult ANY slam seems to win in contrast to a WTF. again, from my earlier points, I feel as if the diversity and size of a Grand Slams (or even some Master 1000 draws) create a much more complicated and difficult path.

no matter what people say, round robin is just not used commonly for good reason- it creates far too much of a predictable event in terms of players preparation and limited difficulty in adjusting. WTF hasn't even had many memorable matches in years
 

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WTF is the 5th biggest tournament in tennis. How is it underrated? More about that it was lacking good matches in the last years. After 2010 you can peak 4-5 really exciting matches. Shame.
 

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Look at last years WTF... Tells you everything you need to know. Also that a good half of the top 8 I couldn't care less about.
I say make the courts faster - it's embarrassing for indoors tournament to be that slow.
 

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Now imagine if both Nadull and Federer finish their career with 17 slams. I'd still say Federer achieved more becoz 0 title in WTF is very embarrassing. It is a sign that you cannot dominate the sports on all surfaces (hence cannot even be called domination) and can only rely on rigged draw and homogenized surface in GS.

Fed didn't dominate on all surfaces either...
 

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WTF is a nice event but unfortunately it has a tiny draw (whether you count the total number of players involved, or just the number of round robin matches required to win the event). its lack of diversity in terms of depth of draw makes it difficult to give a big weight to

the reality is that very often players will go through tougher draws to win Master's 1000 titles than a WTF. just being realistic. not in terms of ranking of opponents, but in terms of difficulty. its a sham to think that the top 10 today is particularly dangerous, in fact people every season on this forum makes threads about 'can you believe so in so is in the top 10!? what a weak era'

the reality is that the likes of Berdych, Ferrer, Raonic, whoever- they are not generally real threats against the top few guys. also when you know the select pool of players from which you may face it allows for a lot of preparation and understanding

I think this thread is ironic because I would argue that SMALLER events, especially Master 1000 ones, where top ranked players are forced to cope with and play a mix of high and low ranked players is far more difficult. generally they come across obviously a bigger variety of TYPES of players in terms of game/style, also when you've never played someone it can be awkward. that intermixed with facing top AND lower ranked players makes for a dangerous combo

for me it will always be very impressive to win the Masters Cup, but I do feel like the entire tour (literally for the most part) outside of the top 5 or 4 guys or whatever has been weak for the past 5 or more years. when half of the players in the top 10 or top 8 or whatever are pretty much BYE's it does not make for nearly as impressive of a year end event and tournament. at least in my opinion

if this were a time of indoor specialists then I would disagree on the topic, or if possibly the guys ranked in the top 8 not named MURRAY DJOKOVIC NADAL FEDERER had any guts or possiblity to win the event, but that just is not the case

also my opinion isn't based on Nadal- I'll admit as much as his haters that the lack of a WTF win is a huge deficit in his career and one of the primary reasons (aside from the weeks at #1 total) why I do not consider Nadal on the level of Sampras yet

at any rate specifically towards the OP's title, I certainly don't think the WTF is underrated. considering its limited format/draw and the fact that there are a lot of gutless players ranked highly who switch in and out of the top 8, I certainly don't think its the pinnacle of the tour (winning the Masters Cup). in fact its kind of strange how much more difficult ANY slam seems to win in contrast to a WTF. again, from my earlier points, I feel as if the diversity and size of a Grand Slams (or even some Master 1000 draws) create a much more complicated and difficult path.

no matter what people say, round robin is just not used commonly for good reason- it creates far too much of a predictable event in terms of players preparation and limited difficulty in adjusting. WTF hasn't even had many memorable matches in years
There must be some MountainDew Slaves rehab clinic out there somewhere, dear. I refuse to believe that there is no help for you.
 
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WTF is rubbish now. Look at the speed of the courts. For an indoor HC tournament to be so slow is a disgrace. No wonder your hero has won it 3 in a row. He wouldn't have done that if it was fast like it should be. No wonder so many fans don't give a crap about it anymore.
 

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I think this thread is ironic because I would argue that SMALLER events, especially Master 1000 ones, where top ranked players are forced to cope with and play a mix of high and low ranked players is far more difficult.
Yes, playing the current best players in the world in a back to back format....with no easy draws or hiding place....is way easier than your typical cakewalk Nadal draw! What? :worship:

The huge achievement of WTF will continue to be played down by Nadal fans, and it is not hard see why. The WTF will remain a premier marker on the cv of the greats of the game, regardless. You have to play a great season just to qualify, you have to arrive hot from the outset - a skill early tested on tour, you have to cope with elite pressure, both mental and physical, the entire tournament...it is a true seasonal best of the best.
 

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I don't think it's underrated. I know there are many Nadal fans that tend to downplay it's importance for obvious reason, but then again, Federer/Djokovic fans do the opposite, so it's balances out eventually.

Look at last years WTF... Tells you everything you need to know. Also that a good half of the top 8 I couldn't care less about.
I say make the courts faster - it's embarrassing for indoors tournament to be that slow.
I do agree that the courts should certainly be faster because an indoor tournament shouldn't be this slow and I also agree that the last few years have been awful in quality, but it's mainly about the players than the surface. For example, WTF 2009-2012 were pretty decent, and the surface is not that different currently as compared to back then. It's maybe slighly slower right now, but not that different. It was just a much better field during those years.
 

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I don't think it's underrated. I know there are many Nadal fans that tend to downplay it's importance for obvious reason, but then again, Federer/Djokovic fans do the opposite, so it's balances out eventually.



I do agree that the courts should certainly be faster because an indoor tournament shouldn't be this slow and I also agree that the last few years have been awful in quality, but it's mainly about the players than the surface. For example, WTF 2009-2012 were pretty decent, and the surface is not that different currently as compared to back then. It's maybe slighly slower right now, but not that different. It was just a much better field during those years.

I haven't seen WTF 2014 but 2013 wasn't slow. High bounce but decent speed.
 

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Everything Djokovic wins gets downgraded. DC was never the same after 2010. The masters lose their value as Djokovic gets closer to completing them. I'm sure if Djokovic can get a hold of WTF record then it will most likely lose its value like many other Djokovic's acievements.
This! Very well said. Desperate haters (i.e. certain layer of butthurt Fedal fangirls) try relly hard to devalue everything Novak does.

Fortunately, many reasonable people, including folks who decided to give Laureus to Novak, know the truth.
 

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I haven't seen WTF 2014 but 2013 wasn't slow. High bounce but decent speed.
This too. WTF is not slow. Not at all. Another misconception perpetrated by Novak haters.
 

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I am not sure if you are high when you say things like masters and grand slams having more depth and tougher draw. But my guess is you must be high on something. First week of grand slams are players with a walking bye on their foreheads and the first few rounds of masters are also against walking byes. To win the WTF you actually have to beat the top 8 guys for the year. You don't face guys that are not even in the top 100. Every match is supposed to be tough. You don't get to beat up on low ranked players and work your way into form or have the opportunity to face someone in the final who is more exhausted than you and you win because of your "fitness" rather than skills.


WTF is a nice event but unfortunately it has a tiny draw (whether you count the total number of players involved, or just the number of round robin matches required to win the event). its lack of diversity in terms of depth of draw makes it difficult to give a big weight to

the reality is that very often players will go through tougher draws to win Master's 1000 titles than a WTF. just being realistic. not in terms of ranking of opponents, but in terms of difficulty. its a sham to think that the top 10 today is particularly dangerous, in fact people every season on this forum makes threads about 'can you believe so in so is in the top 10!? what a weak era'

the reality is that the likes of Berdych, Ferrer, Raonic, whoever- they are not generally real threats against the top few guys. also when you know the select pool of players from which you may face it allows for a lot of preparation and understanding

I think this thread is ironic because I would argue that SMALLER events, especially Master 1000 ones, where top ranked players are forced to cope with and play a mix of high and low ranked players is far more difficult. generally they come across obviously a bigger variety of TYPES of players in terms of game/style, also when you've never played someone it can be awkward. that intermixed with facing top AND lower ranked players makes for a dangerous combo

for me it will always be very impressive to win the Masters Cup, but I do feel like the entire tour (literally for the most part) outside of the top 5 or 4 guys or whatever has been weak for the past 5 or more years. when half of the players in the top 10 or top 8 or whatever are pretty much BYE's it does not make for nearly as impressive of a year end event and tournament. at least in my opinion

if this were a time of indoor specialists then I would disagree on the topic, or if possibly the guys ranked in the top 8 not named MURRAY DJOKOVIC NADAL FEDERER had any guts or possiblity to win the event, but that just is not the case

also my opinion isn't based on Nadal- I'll admit as much as his haters that the lack of a WTF win is a huge deficit in his career and one of the primary reasons (aside from the weeks at #1 total) why I do not consider Nadal on the level of Sampras yet

at any rate specifically towards the OP's title, I certainly don't think the WTF is underrated. considering its limited format/draw and the fact that there are a lot of gutless players ranked highly who switch in and out of the top 8, I certainly don't think its the pinnacle of the tour (winning the Masters Cup). in fact its kind of strange how much more difficult ANY slam seems to win in contrast to a WTF. again, from my earlier points, I feel as if the diversity and size of a Grand Slams (or even some Master 1000 draws) create a much more complicated and difficult path.

no matter what people say, round robin is just not used commonly for good reason- it creates far too much of a predictable event in terms of players preparation and limited difficulty in adjusting. WTF hasn't even had many memorable matches in years
 

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So Djokovic just won Laureus Sports Award with a 1 GS+ WTF + no.1 ranking season.
And if u look at the descriptions of the nominees, you could see that the WTF victory of both Djokovic and Williams are mentioned.

I think some Nadull fans downplay the importance of this event too much just because their idol cannot win it. It features the best 8 players and you cannot rely on a weak draw here. And in a time where there's no fast surface anymore, winning the indoor WTF proves that you are not a one-dimensional player.

Thus I think outsiders still rate WTF highly. Only tennis community downplays its significance and treats it as a cash event.

Now imagine if both Nadull and Federer finish their career with 17 slams. I'd still say Federer achieved more becoz 0 title in WTF is very embarrassing. It is a sign that you cannot dominate the sports on all surfaces (hence cannot even be called domination) and can only rely on rigged draw and homogenized surface in GS.

What do u think?
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