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Did Andre get his "American" title back from Roddick

  • Yes, US Open finalist at 35 solidified it

    Votes: 11 21.6%
  • No, ATP rankings say otherwise

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • Rankings aside, Andre never lost it.

    Votes: 32 62.7%

  • Total voters
    51
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Discussion Starter #1
Has he taken back the best current USA player from Roddick. At 35 no less and was 30-0 in a 4-2 3rd set from forcing Federer to go 5 to defend
 

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for me at least, andre was always the favorite of the two (he and roddick). the media and many fans made Roddick the darling of contemporary american tennis, but his great run at flushing meadows put agassi back in the limelight. maybe he hasn't taken the title away from roddick-- in my eyes agassi still had it. but thats sentiment, not rationale.
 

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BAMJ6 said:
Has he taken back the best current USA player from Roddick. At 35 no less and was 30-0 in a 4-2 3rd set from forcing Federer to go 5 to defend
:scratch: It was 4, anyway Andre is still in my eyes the best American player when he is healthy. The media just wants someone younger to attract the younger generation into the sport (majority of Andys fans are teenage girls so no surprise really)
 

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uNIVERSE mAN said:
Check Agassi-Roddick H2H, end of story.
I forgot what's their head to head?


One thing Andy has going for him is that he sodomized the virginal Mandy Moore AND hosted SNL.
 

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Andre has been the best for 4 years.
 

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BAMJ6 said:
Has he taken back the best current USA player from Roddick. At 35 no less and was 30-0 in a 4-2 3rd set from forcing Federer to go 5 to defend
This is speculation. Even if he held to go 5-2 what guarantee that Federer would not step it up at 5-3 to break.

30-0 4-2 in the third is really no different from Roge having 3 chances to get back on serve in the 2nd and then perhaps being 2 sets up to love.

Too much has been made of that one point in the match when there were many other pivotal points in the match which could have swung it in any direction. andre had chances in the first, after saving 5 or 6 set points, to get back on serve as well.
 

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The issue for me is to wait and see what happens next. At the moment Andre looks like the bigger force in American tennis, however, we don't know if he will stay on tour and be a force in 2006 or will he just play a few selected tournaments. Also I want to see if Roddick is going to keep on losing to lower ranked opponents or will he snap out of that and have some good wins?
 

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R.Federer said:
This is speculation. Even if he held to go 5-2 what guarantee that Federer would not step it up at 5-3 to break.

30-0 4-2 in the third is really no different from Roge having 3 chances to get back on serve in the 2nd and then perhaps being 2 sets up to love.

Such "speculation" is deeply rooted in understanding subtelties of tennis momentum and specific players and situation. Anything is possible, but we're talking about odds - Andre wins that game, he likely wins the set and probably the match.

No, 4-2, 30-0 and great looks at Roger's backhand on subsequent 2 points IS different from Roger having some BP on ANDRE's serve or losing his serve at 15-40 in the 2nd set.
 

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oneandonlyhsn said:
:scratch:The media just wants someone younger to attract the younger generation into the sport (majority of Andys fans are teenage girls so no surprise really)
True the mojority of fans are teenage girls.
 

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AgassiFan said:
Such "speculation" is deeply rooted in understanding subtelties of tennis momentum and specific players and situation. Anything is possible, but we're talking about odds - Andre wins that game, he likely wins the set and probably the match.

No, 4-2, 30-0 and great looks at Roger's backhand on subsequent 2 points IS different from Roger having some BP on ANDRE's serve or losing his serve at 15-40 in the 2nd set.
Well such understanding of subtleties would also point at Roge not having the momentum going into the tiebreaker, after losing so many chances (4 or 5) to break andre at 5-all and serving it out. So the usual subtleties are just that-- speculation based on some past observations. In fact the opposite happened.

One would have thought that after losing so many opportunities, Roger would be a little down on himself. It is all simple now to point to that as such a pivotal point but so many strange momentum shifts have taken place in slam matches so I dont see why this would be an exception where there is so little doubt of what would happen, could happen, etc. based on those few points.

Take coria at 5-4 40-15. He lost that point, the game, set and so on (French2003). Would anyone have speculated that he would then get to the first match point at 6-5 in the fifth? Slam matches bring strange momentum shifts out, the rest we can speculate
 

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I think agassi is still the king, Roddick couldn't get past the first round this tournie.
 

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R.Federer said:
Well such understanding of subtleties would also point at Roge not having the momentum going into the tiebreaker, after losing so many chances (4 or 5) to break andre at 5-all and serving it out. So the usual subtleties are just that-- speculation based on some past observations. In fact the opposite happened.

One would have thought that after losing so many opportunities, Roger would be a little down on himself. It is all simple now to point to that as such a pivotal point but so many strange momentum shifts have taken place in slam matches so I dont see why this would be an exception where there is so little doubt of what would happen, could happen, etc. based on those few points.
Apples and cucumbers. Wasted BP's on somebody else's serve don't count the same as 2-4, 0-30 and two great looks at an open court that weren't taken advantage of in the manner in which they were just a few minutes earlier...

And you've gotta be absolutely kidding me with the whole "Roger not having momentum going into tie breaker"... By his body language, Roger almost conceeded the 3rd set in the 7th game down 0-30 and even after Agassi failed to get his first serves in, Andre still was given great shots to finish off the game, but instead chose not to go for the open court, foolishly choosing to play it more conservatively, which prolonged the point and eventually Fed went for a desperation off balance shot that he was missing all game long that just so happened to clip both lines... Agassi's lack of killer instinct followed by some good shotmaking bailed Fed out of a 5-2 hole and from that point on the momentum was firmly on Roger's side because his margin for error increased while Agassi all but realized he blew his one shot at an upset even before the tie-breaker had commenced...
 

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AgassiFan said:
Apples and cucumbers. Wasted BP's on somebody else's serve don't count the same as 2-4, 0-30 and two great looks at an open court that weren't taken advantage of in the manner in which they were just a few minutes earlier...

And you've gotta be absolutely kidding me with the whole "Roger not having momentum going into tie breaker"... By his body language, Roger almost conceeded the 3rd set in the 7th game down 0-30 and even after Agassi failed to get his first serves in, Andre still was given great shots to finish off the game, but instead chose not to go for the open court, foolishly choosing to play it more conservatively, which prolonged the point and eventually Fed went for a desperation off balance shot that he was missing all game long that just so happened to clip both lines... Agassi's lack of killer instinct followed by some good shotmaking bailed Fed out of a 5-2 hole and from that point on the momentum was firmly on Roger's side because his margin for error increased while Agassi all but realized he blew his one shot at an upset even before the tie-breaker had commenced...
Well I think we continue to disagree, so I just will say that I think this is much easyer in hindsight with result known. In so many slam matches the momentum swings inexplacably from one side to another. Later on it is easy to guess, is this a swing point or that one? I think 4-2 30-0 is one of the swing points, but I dont think it was the only one which determines who wins the game, set and match.
 

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If Andre is healthy and plays his best he can beat any other player except Federer. At the moment the recent matches between Andre and Andy Roddick are very close and point to them as almost being almost equally matched but with Agassi having a distinct mental advantage.

If Agassi and Roddick both play the Master's Cup I would think Agassi is far more likely to do well.
 

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R.Federer said:
Well I think we continue to disagree, so I just will say that I think this is much easyer in hindsight with result known. .
Hindsight? If you go the game thread, you will see that I and a couple of others pretty much said the game was over after the 7th game in the 3rd set when Andre failed to get 1st serves in, couldn't capitalize on fairly routine putaways to Roger's backhand side that Andre was abusing in the previous games, wasting a GREAT chance to go up 5-2, which IMO would meant the match goes at least 5, and might have been over in 4.

Against Federer, you're only given a few chances to put him away, go up in sets, and let the crowd/adrenaline carry you home.... because when you take the foot off the proverbial gas pedal (whether it be in the 1st or 5th set), and give him time to find his rhythm... YOU'RE DEAD.

Whether Fed played badly or not doesn't matter. Andre totally blew it.



...
 

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JonnyC21 said:
If Andre is healthy and plays his best he can beat any other player except Federer.
If Andre plays well, he hits every one of Roger's 125 mph serves for winners. Now if only he was 10 years younger, and didn't have a handicap. He would have maintained that level, and taken the match in 4 sets.

Imagine Roger, playing a 35 year old version of himself.
The outcome would be a quick 6-0, 6-1, 6-1

You have to emphasize the fact that Andre is the best that tennis has to offer.
At 35, still able to play tennis At Roger's level.
 
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