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del Potro is a player of the Djokovic/Murray generation, he's a baseliner - only relying on power/depth/consistency instead of defense/movement... he was never and will never be a ballbasher. It's about time people stop being surprised when he gets often engaged in long rallies; it's not an anomaly, it's his game and has always been: hitting powerful shots to get his opponent off position/draw a short ball and then unleash his forehand. He never ever beat the top players (bar Nadal) by just blowing them off the court, but by outrallying them, by his ability to hit a lot of powerful deep shots in rallies, relentlessly. There's a difference between dictating points and blasting the ball for winners at the first chance, del Potro definitely did try to dictate rallies as often as possible.

Where did you get those groundstroke stats from? That said, although I doubt Novak was hitting harder, it'd not be that surprising, since he can produce much better shots from defensive positions than del Potro, which obviously influences the average. del Potro pushing the ball is an hilarious concept, with his movement he'd be routined by any top 20 player without his power/depth/weight of shot keeping opponents at bay.

It wasn't just Novak, the match has been hailed as a classic already by many, even MTF has more or less collectively agreed on it and you know how negative MTF usually is.
The funny thing is that you write, that he's not a ballbasher and than admit that he does what ballbashers do: "hitting powerful shots to get his opponent off position/draw a short ball and then unleash his forehand". That's ballbashing: hitting the ball hard and fast, bashing it. The problem was that there were not too much of those powerful shots.

I already said where did I get that stat from: it was one of the stat popping up at the late stage of the match which said that Nole's avg groungrstrokes were a bit faster than Delpo's (1 mph faster on average). Not much a difference, but very telling considering that Delpo's potential in this department is much greater than Novak's.

And I didn't write about it being a classic or not, but whether it was best Delpo's match with a lot of powerful shots. AO 2012 is also seen as a classic by many, but it doesn't change the fact, that it wasn't the best match of Djokovic nor Nadal and there wasn't much power-hitting there.
 

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:spit: People claiming this is an instant classic. Nole played at about 30%.
 

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:spit: People claiming this is an instant classic. Nole played at about 30%.
Oh here we go again. Whenever del Potro does well it's because his opponent plays badly and he was at 100%, no? Sweet heavens, must be the worst 100% known to man.
 

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The funny thing is that you write, that he's not a ballbasher and than admit that he does what ballbashers do: "hitting powerful shots to get his opponent off position/draw a short ball and then unleash his forehand". That's ballbashing: hitting the ball hard and fast, bashing it. The problem was that there were not too much of those powerful shots.

I already said where did I get that stat from: it was one of the stat popping up at the late stage of the match which said that Nole's avg groungrstrokes were a bit faster than Delpo's (1 mph faster on average). Not much a difference, but very telling considering that Delpo's potential in this department is much greater than Novak's.

And I didn't write about it being a classic or not, but whether it was best Delpo's match with a lot of powerful shots. AO 2012 is also seen as a classic by many, but it doesn't change the fact, that it wasn't the best match of Djokovic nor Nadal and there wasn't much power-hitting there.
Unless your definition of a ballbasher is anyone who hits the ball very hard, then del Potro doesn't fit at all. He only really unleashes when he gets a short ball to pounce on or on the run, most of his shots are actually quite conservative, only he has so much firepower at his disposal than even those conservative shots are rather powerful for the general standards of the tour.

del Potro has more firepower than Novak from neutral and offensive positions, Novak's ability to hit flat powerful shots when he's on the defensive is definitely superior, despite JMDP's odd rocket on the run. You must have been one of the few people in the world who didn't see powerful many shots from del Potro in this match. There were a lot; of course there were also a lot of more conservative shots where depth and placement were privileged over raw power, but what did you expect - JMDP to try and take down Djokovic by swinging for the fences in every shot?
 

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Unless your definition of a ballbasher is anyone who hits the ball very hard, then del Potro doesn't fit at all. He only really unleashes when he gets a short ball to pounce on or on the run, most of his shots are actually quite conservative, only he has so much firepower at his disposal than even those conservative shots are rather powerful for the general standards of the tour.

del Potro has more firepower than Novak from neutral and offensive positions, Novak's ability to hit flat powerful shots when he's on the defensive is definitely superior, despite JMDP's odd rocket on the run. You must have been one of the few people in the world who didn't see powerful many shots from del Potro in this match. There were a lot; of course there were also a lot of more conservative shots where depth and placement were privileged over raw power, but what did you expect - JMDP to try and take down Djokovic by swinging for the fences in every shot?

It has nothing to do with hitting the ball very hard. Ball-basher is anyone who plays low-percentage/margin shots (most of the time), regardless of the power. Ball-bashers hit high risk/low margin shots most of the time and hope that it goes over the net/hit lines. Yes, Del Potro hits the ball very hard, but his big forehands are 'safe' shots, for him at least. He can hit them with power and he'll make it 19/20, because for him those are not high risk shots at all. He's far away from being a ball-basher. Ball-bashing wins you games, maybe even sets...every now and then it might win you a match against a top-ranked opponent, but ball-bashing will not win you tournaments, slams especially.
 

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It has nothing to do with hitting the ball very hard. Ball-bashers hit high risk/low margin shots most of the time and hope that it goes over the net/hit lines. Yes, Del Potro hits the ball very hard, but his big forehands are 'safe' shots, for him at least. He can hit them with power and he'll make it 19/20, because for him those are not high risk shots at all. He's far away from being a ball-basher. Ball-bashing wins you games, maybe even sets...every now and then it might win you a match against a top tanked opponent, but ball-bashing will not win you tournaments, slams especially.
Precisely. del Potro's powerful shots are actually high % shots for him. del Potro is a % player just like Murray, Djokovic and co., just relying on different attributes.

There's some sort of myth that del Potro used to be more aggressive before his surgery, but it's not true at all; he was always a power baseliner, using his power to construct points, never the type of player to hit low percentage shots or swing for the fences.
 

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Net points doesnt mean serve and volleying. it includes net approaches.
i never said that. been following novak since 2007 and i know S&V is not his game.
 

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Del Potro is not a ballbasher, and never was. For a big guy with lots of power, he constructs points better than any guy his size better than I've ever seen bar Safin. Berdych and Tsonga play much lower percentage tennis than Delpo does. Even Federer in his prime, with his ultra-attacking style, played high-percentage tennis.
 

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Oh here we go again. Whenever del Potro does well it's because his opponent plays badly and he was at 100%, no? Sweet heavens, must be the worst 100% known to man.
How can Del Po be 100% when he "hyperextended" his knee, TWICE? Must be the best tennis player never to be affected by injuries, right after Nadal. :lol:
 

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How can Del Po be 100% when he "hyperextended" his knee, TWICE? Must be the best tennis player never to be affected by injuries, right after Nadal. :lol:
If Delpo wasn't 100%, then he did pretty bloody amazing to push Djokovic like he did.

As with the Ferrer match, he was probably injected with painkillers.
 

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If Delpo wasn't 100%, then he did pretty bloody amazing to push Djokovic like he did.

As with the Ferrer match, he was probably injected with painkillers.
Yup, painkillers. Hope he didn't aggravate anything, painkillers only mask the pain, they don't make whatever is causing it disappear.

I can only imagine how giddy you were seeing your two favorite players interact like that :yeah:
 

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Precisely. del Potro's powerful shots are actually high % shots for him. del Potro is a % player just like Murray, Djokovic and co., just relying on different attributes.

There's some sort of myth that del Potro used to be more aggressive before his surgery, but it's not true at all; he was always a power baseliner, using his power to construct points, never the type of player to hit low percentage shots or swing for the fences.
In 2009, his serve was a bigger weapon. Only difference, really.
 

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In 2009, his serve was a bigger weapon. Only difference, really.
His serve is roughly the same imo. His BH declined the most, yesterday was the first time in very long I saw him go DTL consistently and with success, hope a sign that his left wrist problems have been fully overcome. Also in 2009 he was healthy all year long and gathered momentum nicely, unlike this year - which has been pretty bad for him in that regard.

The main issue, though, is that at the age of 21-23/24, while he was off the tour undergoing surgery and then working his way back from scratch (with more injuries to make it harder), his rivals like Djokovic and Murray were maturing their games and mentality and slowly working their way into their peak. Losing those developments years only makes it harder for JMDP to break through now, but the signs are encouraging, there's hope for sure.
 

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How can Del Po be 100% when he "hyperextended" his knee, TWICE? Must be the best tennis player never to be affected by injuries, right after Nadal. :lol:
I was trying to refer to his serve, for one thing--who has <60% first serves and only 4 aces when 100%? Cilic? Bartoli? Has nothing to do with his knee; his movement surprised me.

Meanwhile 30% Djokovic produced these oft-mentioned 22 aces and 80 winners, so I can only imagine what a fierce, mythical monster would show up if this 100% existed. Oh wait, that's only because he always does this well against del Potro, who is too much of a mug to prevent all those winners even when 100%, no? And surely that was just 5% Djokovic who played, no wait, gifted, those matches in IW and the Olympics.

I'm not even trying to prove anything. It was a good match, that's all. There's a pattern here where everyone seems to "play badly" against del Potro, as if every error is always unforced.
 

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It has nothing to do with hitting the ball very hard. Ball-basher is anyone who plays low-percentage/margin shots (most of the time), regardless of the power. Ball-bashers hit high risk/low margin shots most of the time and hope that it goes over the net/hit lines. Yes, Del Potro hits the ball very hard, but his big forehands are 'safe' shots, for him at least. He can hit them with power and he'll make it 19/20, because for him those are not high risk shots at all. He's far away from being a ball-basher. Ball-bashing wins you games, maybe even sets...every now and then it might win you a match against a top-ranked opponent, but ball-bashing will not win you tournaments, slams especially.
Ballbasher is someone who often bashes the ball. No rocket science here, really. And Delpo does bash the ball often. So he's a ballbasher.

Ballbasher is not the same as risky tennis. You can play risky tennis without bashing the ball at all, but using risky angles, or risky placement, instead. At the same time you can bash the ball without trying to paint the lines.

You're also wrong that ballbasher can't "win tournaments, slams especially". Lets leave Delpo for a while, as you still wrongly treat him as a non-ballbasher. If Berdych wasn't so mentally bad against Nadal and Djokovic, he'd already have at least 1 or 2 Slams. This has nothing to do with his playing style being a drawback.

On a contrary, being a ballbasher is more popular today because current conditions make it easier to achieve success with this style: slower courts favor power over other offensive styles (to hit through slow courts) and give big guys (who have most potential here) time to prepare their powerful groundstrokes (their movement is usually not great). High bounce makes it much easier to bash the ball, as the trajectory of the ball can be more linear when you hit it from a high point, which give more margin for error, decreasing the risk of powerful and flat shots.
 

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Ballbasher is someone who often bashes the ball. No rocket science here, really. And Delpo does bash the ball often. So he's a ballbasher.
It doesn't matter what you think the term should describe, what matters is how people actually use it in practice. When people say Del Potro isn't a ballbasher, they are saying that he doesn't indiscriminately hit the ball hard (going for broke on every point), but actually tries to construct points intelligently.

If you agree with this, then there really is no disagreement - other than over semantics.
 
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