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The conditions at IW this week were deplorable and an abomination to hardcourt tennis. They rewarded pushing and ballbashing rather than strategy and aggression. Miami’s courts used to have the reputation for the slowest on tour. But IW may have set the new standard and might as well convert to dirt.

I’m really hoping that this new venue will play significantly quicker than the desert.
 

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The conditions at IW this week were deplorable and an abomination to hardcourt tennis. They rewarded pushing and ballbashing rather than strategy and aggression. Miami’s courts used to have the reputation for the slowest on tour. But IW may have set the new standard and might as well convert to dirt.

I’m really hoping that this new venue will play significantly quicker than the desert.

lol
 

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the conditions at iw this week were deplorable and an abomination to hardcourt tennis. They rewarded pushing and ballbashing rather than strategy and aggression. Miami’s courts used to have the reputation for the slowest on tour. But iw may have set the new standard and might as well convert to dirt.

I’m really hoping that this new venue will play significantly quicker than the desert.
 

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The conditions at IW this week were deplorable and an abomination to hardcourt tennis. They rewarded pushing and ballbashing rather than strategy and aggression. Miami’s courts used to have the reputation for the slowest on tour. But IW may have set the new standard and might as well convert to dirt.

I’m really hoping that this new venue will play significantly quicker than the desert.

Finally a proper take. Yeah guise, slow bouncy surfaces favour both topspin grinding and big swing ballbashing, as both require precious time.
 

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I agree IW played absolutely nothing like a hard court. I like Thiem, he's my favorite top 10 player, but how comfortable he seemed is as good evidence as anything this doesn't play like HC (the ESPN commentators said Thiem told them exactly that before the Raonic match- he liked the surface because he felt like he was playing on clay). He can play some decent tennis but it's when he adjusts his game slightly, and he didn't do that here. He played his plan A game- million miles beyond the baseline, enormous takebacks to hit the ball with every ounce of energy he has- and while that game is very fun to watch, it just shouldn't work on hard courts and that it did tells you something is wrong.

I don't dislike clay tennis by any means (it's maybe my favorite surface if not for the success of a certain player) but it should be on clay. This is a recipe for injuries and Miami's quality of tennis is always by far the lowest of any big event because forcing players to play long rallies on a hard court in 100% humidity (which IW doesn't have) is also a recipe for exhausted players.
 

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If Miami is faster and Rogie made the F on slow as molasses IW, then how do you think he'll fare in Miami??
Federer certainly has his Chances in Miami. If he can get through R2 without any accident. He must stop being pissed off after a bad loss and move on with everything. He didn’t do that last year. The Del Potro Match was always on his mind. He couldn’t get a clear head. (To be fair it was 10 times worse than today) but that was why he lost to kokkinakis, also after dominating the first set...
 

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Let's look at the 9 times Rogie has made the F of Indian Wells (in which he's 5-4 in the F, 5 titles, 4 runners up)...
2004: IW title and 3rd round Miami, 2005 and 2006: IW and Miami titles, 2012: IW title and Miami 3rd round, 2014: IW F and Miami QF, 2015: IW F and Miami Absent, 2017: IW and Miami titles, 2018: IW F and Miami 2nd round; 2019: IW F and Miami ??

I think there's a good chance he can lose in 2R, 3R, 4R, or QF here and not make the SF, F, or win it all...
2R- 1x; 3R- 2x; QF-1x, Absent-1x, W-3x...

So what will his 2019 Miami result be, I reserve any further judgment until the draw comes out tomorrow!!
 

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The funny thing is most of these losses were avoidable with the exception of 2004 against Rafa who he underestimated completely and had the wrong tactics for the entire match.

2012... Roddick: dominated a set and a half, then Roddick suddenly played the best return game of his life against Federer and snatched the win.
2014 same thing: dominant vs. Nishikori. Lost in a close third after failing to seize his chances
2018 vs kokkinakis: strange drop off in the second set. Then had 3 times a 0:30 in the third but could never capitalize and lost in the breaker...
 

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Been hearing the same shit for 20 years

Best players adapt to anything

Court, weather, dry, humid, hot, cold, windy, still, whatever
 

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IW has been as slow as this for as long as i can remember.

I hope Miami will be similar, we got 2 great finals in IW..
 

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The funny thing is most of these losses were avoidable with the exception of 2004 against Rafa who he underestimated completely and had the wrong tactics for the entire match.

2012... Roddick: dominated a set and a half, then Roddick suddenly played the best return game of his life against Federer and snatched the win.
2014 same thing: dominant vs. Nishikori. Lost in a close third after failing to seize his chances
2018 vs kokkinakis: strange drop off in the second set. Then had 3 times a 0:30 in the third but could never capitalize and lost in the breaker...
Fed was sick then, too. I agree he didn't play Nadal properly, which made the scoreline rather embarrassing, but Nadal was going to outrun him in that state anyway.
 

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I don't see the problem, IW and Miami have always been the slowest HC M1000s on tour. :shrug:

Miamis pure courtspeed is probably classified as slightly quicker than IW again, but generally the humidity makes Miami much slower whereas IW is much quicker due to the heat and the thin air. Not particularly a novelty. Those conditions are very spin-friendly too (and it couldn't be more obvious with Thiem winning the tournament) and that actually favours proper point-construction. The tennis is mostly allright.

In Miami on the other hand the humidity (and also the wind) turn basically every day-time match into a mugfest. It's by far the lowest quality M1000 and unlike in IW pushers do actually like the conditions here.
Even though it's slower than IW, clay-courters normally prefer IW by quite a margin because of the bounce that equals clay. It's no coincidence Nadal sucks in Miami and likes IW. Funnily Thiem's been quite succesful in Miami too, no idea why...

That said I definitely wouldn't disagree to making the sunshine double a clay-swing (in addition to a SA clay M1000) and think this is actually quite a logical step. The next Grand Slam is played on clay and it is inbetween the Golden Swing in SA and the European clay-swing, both played on clay. We then had 5 clay M1000s and 4 HC M1000s alongside 2 HC GSs and 1 clay Slam, sounds like a fair distributiuon to me.
 

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I don't see the problem, IW and Miami have always been the slowest HC M1000s on tour. :shrug:

Miamis pure courtspeed is probably classified as slightly quicker than IW again, but generally the humidity makes Miami much slower whereas IW is much quicker due to the heat and the thin air. Not particularly a novelty. Those conditions are very spin-friendly too (and it couldn't be more obvious with Thiem winning the tournament) and that actually favours proper point-construction. The tennis is mostly allright.

In Miami on the other hand the humidity (and also the wind) turn basically every day-time match into a mugfest. It's by far the lowest quality M1000 and unlike in IW pushers do actually like the conditions here.
Even though it's slower than IW, clay-courters normally prefer IW by quite a margin because of the bounce that equals clay. It's no coincidence Nadal sucks in Miami and likes IW. Funnily Thiem's been quite succesful in Miami too, no idea why...

That said I definitely wouldn't disagree to making the sunshine double a clay-swing (in addition to a SA clay M1000) and think this is actually quite a logical step. The next Grand Slam is played on clay and it is inbetween the Golden Swing in SA and the European clay-swing, both played on clay. We then had 5 clay M1000s and 4 HC M1000s alongside 2 HC GSs and 1 clay Slam, sounds like a fair distributiuon to me.


You cant quantify everything. Cant put everything down to surface.

Some shit just happens.

Players adapt on the fly all the time to changes in the court. Rafa doesnt just suck in MIA and likes IW... he's fairly similar in both.
 

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I don't see the problem, IW and Miami have always been the slowest HC M1000s on tour. :shrug:

Miamis pure courtspeed is probably classified as slightly quicker than IW again, but generally the humidity makes Miami much slower whereas IW is much quicker due to the heat and the thin air. Not particularly a novelty. Those conditions are very spin-friendly too (and it couldn't be more obvious with Thiem winning the tournament) and that actually favours proper point-construction. The tennis is mostly allright.

In Miami on the other hand the humidity (and also the wind) turn basically every day-time match into a mugfest. It's by far the lowest quality M1000 and unlike in IW pushers do actually like the conditions here.
Even though it's slower than IW, clay-courters normally prefer IW by quite a margin because of the bounce that equals clay. It's no coincidence Nadal sucks in Miami and likes IW. Funnily Thiem's been quite succesful in Miami too, no idea why...

That said I definitely wouldn't disagree to making the sunshine double a clay-swing (in addition to a SA clay M1000) and think this is actually quite a logical step. The next Grand Slam is played on clay and it is inbetween the Golden Swing in SA and the European clay-swing, both played on clay. We then had 5 clay M1000s and 4 HC M1000s alongside 2 HC GSs and 1 clay Slam, sounds like a fair distributiuon to me.
Altitude is the biggest factor towards ball pace. Next is temperature. Humidity has very minor impact, but actually contrary to what you posit, i.e. the more humid, the less resistance in the air.

https://fogmountaintennis.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/atmospheric/

Humidity

When people in the sport talk about “heavy” playing conditions, humidity is the atmospheric variable they mention most often. It comes up during rainy weather like at this year’s Roland Garros, in the sauna-like conditions that often prevail on the US east coast during the hardcourt season, and has even been blamed for slowing down play when the roof closes at Wimbledon. Conversely, one popular justification for the widespread belief that balls tend to fly further than normal at Indian Wells is the dry desert air.

There are two problems with such theories. Most importantly, they’re backwards. Contrary to common intuition, humid air is less dense than dry air, and therefore creates less drag on a ball. This is a consequence of the ideal gas law, which implies that at a given pressure and temperature, a given volume of any gas contains the same number of molecules. Dry air consists almost entirely of nitrogen molecules (N2, molecular weight 28) and oxygen molecules (O2, molecular weight 32). Diluting it with molecules of water vapor (H2O, molecular weight 18) makes it lighter.

The other problem with blaming humidity for slowing down or speeding up play is that, in the conditions under which most tennis matches are played, the effect of humidity on air density is very small. At 70°F (21°C), a change in the humidity from 0% to 100% decreases the air density by a mere 1%, which increases the speed at which a fast groundstroke arrives at the opposite baseline by less than 0.3 mph (0.5 km/h).

[...]

Summary

Like a lot of tennis lore, prevailing beliefs about how atmospheric conditions affect the game are a combination of truths, half-truths, and delusions made credible by repetition and recirculation. Scientific analysis reveals that many effects are more complicated than they appear, and often subtler than we expect. Often quantifiable reality differs from the tactile perceptions of players in the rush of battle. High altitude, high temperatures, and low pressures can all speed up play, in that order. Humidity has very little practical effect. Heavy balls, especially if they’re heavy because they’re wet, can make playing conditions heavier in a very real sense. But that’s a different kind of effect, sapping the strength of players more than it changes the flight of balls.
 
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