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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
All tall hard hitters (190 cm+) who play well on the baseline and have a good movement and ROS have a relatively bad serve.
Safin, Berdych, Del Potro, Soderling. Why they all don't have a serve like Raonic, Roddick, Rusedski, Krajicek, Ljubicic, Philippousis, Ivanishevic ?
Such players would be 10+ slam winners.
It's not a hyphotetic bullshit like - give Raonis's serve to Nadal, Ferrer or Djokovic bla-bla-bla.
All these players have a size and physical parameters to have a lethal serve.
What reason of it? law of conservation energy or something else ?
 

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I guess it's just a question of what they focused on when they were coming through the ranks. Safin, Berd, Soderling, DP all had enough athleticism/ballstriking ability to win with their groundstrokes, so they didn't have to totally rely on their serve and probably practiced it a bit less as a result. On the other hand, Raonic, Ivanesevic, etc probably were able to coast their way through the juniors with their serves, so didn't have to develop such a strong ground game.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that players have a natural inclination towards a certain part of the game to begin with (baseline vs serve), and then they tend to focus on what they are already good at, making the difference even more marked. That said, Safin and Soderling at least had very good serves, not at the level of the players in the second group you mentioned but clearly better than Del Potro and Berdych.
 

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I guess it's just a question of what they focused on when they were coming through the ranks. Safin, Berd, Soderling, DP all had enough athleticism/ballstriking ability to win with their groundstrokes, so they didn't have to totally rely on their serve and probably practiced it a bit less as a result. On the other hand, Raonic, Ivanesevic, etc probably were able to coast their way through the juniors with their serves, so didn't have to develop such a strong ground game.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that players have a natural inclination towards a certain part of the game to begin with (baseline vs serve), and then they tend to focus on what they are already good at, making the difference even more marked. That said, Safin and Soderling at least had very good serves, not at the level of the players in the second group you mentioned but clearly better than Del Potro and Berdych.
Well-said:yeah:

All tall hard hitters (190 cm+) who play well on the baseline and have a good movement and ROS have a relatively bad serve.
Safin, Berdych, Del Potro, Soderling. Whe they all don't have a serve like Raonic, Roddick, Rusedski, Krajicek, Ljubicic, Philippousis ?
Such players would be 10+ slam winners.
If Rosol played all his matches like vs Nadal in Wimbledon-12 he would be undefeated.
 

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except from Seppi, there is no tall player in ATP top 100 with a bad serve :confused:

Not even relatively bad.

How can you say that Berdych and Del Potro have bad serves? :lol:

Raonic, Isner, Roddick, Karlovic - they're exceptional servers, not just good.

The older guys - they played in different conditions and the two best servers from that time you don't even mention - Ivanisevic and Sampras.
 

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All tall hard hitters (190 cm+) who play well on the baseline and have a good movement and ROS have a relatively bad serve.
Safin, Berdych, Del Potro, Soderling. Whe they all don't have a serve like Raonic, Roddick, Rusedski, Krajicek, Ljubicic, Philippousis, Ivanishevic ?
Such players would be 10+ slam winners.
It's not a hyphotetic bullshit like - give Nadal, Ferrer or Djokovic Raonis's serve bla-bla-bla.
All these players have a size and physical parameters to have a lethal serve.
What reason of it? law of conservation energy or something else ?
Safin had a way better serve than Berdych, Del Potro and Soderling. :confused:
 

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So we gonna act like Roddick had no backhand and forehand and put him alongside Ivanisevic?
 
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Because when Delpo was growing up and slapping 100mph+ forehands, he didn't need a serve. In fact, he probably served lightly on purpose just to get more cracks from the baseline.
 

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except from Seppi, there is no tall player in ATP top 100 with a bad serve :confused:

Not even relatively bad.

How can you say that Berdych and Del Potro have bad serves? :lol:

Raonic, Isner, Roddick, Karlovic - they're exceptional servers, not just good.

The older guys - they played in different conditions and the two best servers from that time you don't even mention - Ivanisevic and Sampras.

Someone like JMDP should have a better serve given his height, it's true. But Safin had a great serve, shouldn't be there.
 

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except from Seppi, there is no tall player in ATP top 100 with a bad serve :confused:
Seppi's serve improved a lot in recent years, he's a good one now.
Tall and not a great serve Delbonis and Nieminen came to mind.
 

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Safin had a way better serve than Berdych, Del Potro and Soderling. :confused:
I think Soderling's was comparable, I think he hit more 140+ serves than Marat did, although Safin had better placement. I agree that Safin was definitely a better server than Berdych and Del Potro.
 

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Career stats:
First serve persentage : 55%
1st Serve Points Won - 75 %
2nd Serve Points Won - 52 %
Service games won - 82 %

very far from impressive
That includes post summer 2005 when he was a mug most of the time. Plus these stats don't mean much really, % of points won is affected by what happens during the points after the serve.
 

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Safin had, and Berdy has a good serve. It's just that they also have good groundstrokes, so you don't notice the serve as much in comparison. For people like Raonic who can only serve, and barely hit the ball in, it heightens the contrast.
 

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In what world did Soderling not have a monster serve?
 
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