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I don't agree with the prevailing thought that Nadal is mentally stronger than Federer. I think it's the other way around.

First of all, Nadal only has 2 come-from-behind victories from 2 sets down in his entire career. Federer is tied for the most in the open era. When Nadal gets significantly behind, there's a much greater chance he will take an MTO than come back and win the match.

Nadal has shown time and again that he's not good at fighting from behind. That's why he has been bageled so many more times than Federer.

Secondly, Nadal has not shown himself to be that clutch in the biggest pressure situations. Take the 4th set tiebreak of the 2008 Wimbledon final, for example. Nadal was leading 5-2 in the tiebreak and had 2 serves to close it out and win the title. What does this supposedly uber-mentally strong player do in this situation?

On the first point, he double faults. Then on the second point, he again loses the point. He goes on to lose the tiebreak, but not until after Federer hits a backhand passing shot winner down match point.

Or take the 2012 AO against Djokovic. The match was on his racket in the 5th set and he let Djokovic back in it with a missed easy backhand down the line. Djokovic, of course, went on to win the match.

It seems to me that people mistakenly think of Nadal as a "mentally tough" "competitor" and a "hard worker" because of an image that emanates from all the grunting and fist-pumping he does. He makes it look harder, therefore that must mean he's a harder worker.

But who is the one training in the sweltering Dubai heat, wearing out hitting partner after hitting partner? It's the guy who has the 17 Grand Slams. Not the guy who used to have the big biceps from "going to the gym, brah."

Nadal was successful because he was blessed with great speed and the ability to generate so much top spin on his shots. Plus, he's ambidextrous. Not because he's got the best mental strength or work ethic.
 

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Secret of Dull's so called mental toughness lies in his net clearance of moonballs and very disciplined patterns of play under pressure. If those works, people says he is mental giant and if not anyone like Rosol, Brown can roast him.
 

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There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.
Why bother replying if you're not actually going to say what you think is "wrong" with it?
 

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First of all, Nadal only has 2 come-from-behind victories from 2 sets down in his entire career. Federer is tied for the most in the open era. When Nadal gets significantly behind, there's a much greater chance he will take an MTO than come back and win the match.
You are not supposed to win matches when you are down 2 sets to 0 because it means you are being outplayed. In that case you usually have to rely on your opponent letting you back in (choking, getting tired etc.). I mean who did Fed beat from 2 sets to 0 down? Baby Nadal, Monfils (lol), Benneteau (lol), Falla (lol).

Nadal has shown time and again that he's not good at fighting from behind. That's why he has been bageled so many more times than Federer.
No, he has been bageled more because his serve is weaker.

Secondly, Nadal has not shown himself to be that clutch in the biggest pressure situations. Take the 4th set tiebreak of the 2008 Wimbledon final, for example. Nadal was leading 5-2 in the tiebreak and had 2 serves to close it out and win the title. What does this supposedly uber-mentally strong player do in this situation?

On the first point, he double faults. Then on the second point, he again loses the point. He goes on to lose the tiebreak, but not until after Federer hits a backhand passing shot winner down match point.

Or take the 2012 AO against Djokovic. The match was on his racket in the 5th set and he let Djokovic back in it with a missed easy backhand down the line. Djokovic, of course, went on to win the match.
OK fine, so Nadal hasn't been clutch in all of his matches. Now what about Fed. How on earth did he lose that 2009 USO final from a set and a break up against a first time slam finalist that was nervous and not in that match at all until Fed let him back in?

Not even mentioning matches like AO09, USO 10/11 SF.
 

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Loss with 2-0 in sets
Nadal: 1
Federer: 4 :wavey:

Deciding Set (3rd or 5th Set)
Nadal: 124-55 69%
Federer: 191-106 64% :lol:

5th Set Record
Nadal: 17-5 77%
Federer: 23-19 54% :worship:

Versus Top 10
Nadal: 131-6666%
Federer: 189-101 65% :smash:

Finals
Nadal: 66-29 69%
Federer: 86-44 66% :haha:

After Winning 1st Set
Nadal: 652-35 95%
Federer: 920-69 93% :spit:

After Losing 1st Set
Nadal: 88-117 43%
Federer: 116-165 41% :D

Fedtards in ruins as usual :dance: :dance: :dance: :bigwave: :bigwave: :bigwave: :nerner: :banana: :banana: :rolls:
 

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Interesting topic.
Nadal looked v mentally weak vs Djoko in '11 because he couldn't outlast him and had no plan B.
I do think superior fitness, playing with huge margins for error and standing further back is a big factor in "mental strength".
To really go for it, with small margins, high risk, low % play is very tough and to execute that on the big points is v impressive, something Stan did vs Djoko at the FO.
Has Rafa looked so strong this year mentally? No. A lot of that comes down to him not playing, shorter and less spinny shots. But vs Djoko at the FO he looked shot after 2 sets!
 

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Nadal's ability to run down balls was his best skill back when he wasn't complete and utter garbage. That said, his mentality is pretty much the only reason he has as many titles as he does. That and his opponents choking of course.
 

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Loss with 2-0 in sets
Nadal: 1
Federer: 4 :wavey:

Deciding Set (3rd or 5th Set)
Nadal: 124-55 69%
Federer: 191-106 54% :lol:

5th Set Record
Nadal: 17-5 77%
Federer: 23-19 54% :worship:

Versus Top 10
Nadal: 131-6666%
Federer: 189-101 65% :smash:

Finals
Nadal: 66-29 69%
Federer: 86-44 66% :haha:

After Winning 1st Set
Nadal: 652-35 95%
Federer: 920-69 93% :spit:

After Losing 1st Set
Nadal: 88-117 43%
Federer: 116-165 41% :D

Fedtards in ruins as usual :dance: :dance: :dance: :bigwave: :bigwave: :bigwave: :nerner: :banana: :banana: :rolls:
Roger's doing fairly well this year. I don't see any reason why his fans should be the ones in ruins.
 

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Deciding Set (3rd or 5th Set)
Nadal: 124-55 69%
Federer: 191-106 54% :lol:

5th Set Record
Nadal: 17-5 77%
Federer: 23-19 54% :worship:
These can also be read as Federer making it close and even dragging out a deciding set, despite being beaten, whilst Nadal gets more clearly beaten most of the time.

Just like a comeback from 2-0 can be read as 'great comeback, good mental strength' and 'other player must have dropped, what the hell were you doing the first two sets to get 2-0 behind'.

I just don't think either stat is that objectively clear when assessing mental strength.

Fwiw I think they both are very strong mentally, but would give Nadal the edge. Federer has in my mind flopped more often than Nadal, though that may be influenced by playing style as well.
 

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These can also be read as Federer making it close and even dragging out a deciding set, despite being beaten, whilst Nadal gets more clearly beaten most of the time.

Just like a comeback from 2-0 can be read as 'great comeback, good mental strength' and 'other player must have dropped, what the hell were you doing the first two sets to get 2-0 behind'.

I just don't think either stat is that objectively clear when assessing mental strength.

Fwiw I think they both are very strong mentally, but would give Nadal the edge. Federer has in my mind flopped more often than Nadal, though that may be influenced by playing style as well.
Trying to reasonably debate with Nadaltards is almost impossible to do. I wouldn't hold my breath on him understanding your logic.
 

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These can also be read as Federer making it close and even dragging out a deciding set, despite being beaten, whilst Nadal gets more clearly beaten most of the time.

Just like a comeback from 2-0 can be read as 'great comeback, good mental strength' and 'other player must have dropped, what the hell were you doing the first two sets to get 2-0 behind'.

I just don't think either stat is that objectively clear when assessing mental strength.

Fwiw I think they both are very strong mentally, but would give Nadal the edge. Federer has in my mind flopped more often than Nadal, though that may be influenced by playing style as well.
I understand that everyone "reads" the statistics in their own way. But if a person offers a discussion on any topic, it needs to consider all facts. In our case, usual hater offers only those facts that suit his point of view and and ignores many other facts.
 

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I understand that everyone "reads" the statistics in their own way. But if a person offers a discussion on any topic, it needs to consider all factors. In our case, usual hater offers only those facts that suit his point of view and and ignores many other facts.
I agree with that and that's why I also commented on the 2-0 comeback statement. I'm just not sure if any statistic is gonna give clear insight on this topic. Mental strength is hard to measure.

For instance, the 2 matchpoints that Fed lost to Djokovic at usopen in the 2 different years. 2010 I remember as Djokovic outplaying Federer, not really much of a chance. 2011, same position, but I felt this was more of a mental lapse from Fed (even the first point, great return but not that great a serve). So thats 2 times 2 match points wasted, but only one of those times it came down to mental strength.
Circumstances were not completely the same of course (serving guy was different for starters), but it's the first thing that springs to my mind.
 

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So according to MTF he has no talent or mental strength. but he sure seems to have won a lot. What's his secret? :confused:
 

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I agree with that and that's why I also commented on the 2-0 comeback statement. I'm just not sure if any statistic is gonna give clear insight on this topic. Mental strength is hard to measure.

For instance, the 2 matchpoints that Fed lost to Djokovic at usopen in the 2 different years. 2010 I remember as Djokovic outplaying Federer, not really much of a chance. 2011, same position, but I felt this was more of a mental lapse from Fed (even the first point, great return but not that great a serve). So thats 2 times 2 match points wasted, but only one of those times it came down to mental strength.
Circumstances were not completely the same of course (serving guy was different for starters), but it's the first thing that springs to my mind.
I also agree that stats doesn't show perfectly the mental strength of a player. You just need to watch the matches. Personal rivalries are the best way to compare it. Just remember how many times Federer has choked in matches against Nadal.
 

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I agree with that and that's why I also commented on the 2-0 comeback statement. I'm just not sure if any statistic is gonna give clear insight on this topic. Mental strength is hard to measure.

For instance, the 2 matchpoints that Fed lost to Djokovic at usopen in the 2 different years. 2010 I remember as Djokovic outplaying Federer, not really much of a chance. 2011, same position, but I felt this was more of a mental lapse from Fed (even the first point, great return but not that great a serve). So thats 2 times 2 match points wasted, but only one of those times it came down to mental strength.
Circumstances were not completely the same of course (serving guy was different for starters), but it's the first thing that springs to my mind.
Fed might not have done too much wrong at those match points itself, however, he didn't react well when he missed the chances in both situations (dropped his serve both times, 2011 even twice in a row).

OP mentioned how Nadal choked in the 4th set tiebreak against Fed WIM08. However, he didn't show a negative reaction in the 5th.
 
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