Mens Tennis Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,906 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In every sport, it's just one "GOAT" after another.

Is this a sign of the narcissism of current generations? It's not enough that someone just be a great athlete. It has to be OF ALL TIME in order for people today to think it really means anything and that their lives have meaning as a result.

"Tom Brady is the GOAT."
"LeBron James is the GOAT."
"Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Novak Djokovic...is the GOAT."

When did this start? In the 1990s with Michael Jordan, maybe?

It's not just athletics, either. Every TV show people currently enjoy is "the greatest television show EVER."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,135 Posts
Presumably American'ts finally having one of their own winning most slams (Mugpras), so US the best of all time. Whole 90s also seem like an era when such words might have started being used. But I'd like to proven wromg or somebody to add more.

As for now, we're just dumber than ever, one might even say the dumbest times of all times.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
820 Posts
In every sport, it's just one "GOAT" after another.

Is this a sign of the narcissism of current generations? It's not enough that someone just be a great athlete. It has to be OF ALL TIME in order for people today to think it really means anything and that their lives have meaning as a result.

"Tom Brady is the GOAT."
"LeBron James is the GOAT."
"Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Novak Djokovic...is the GOAT."

When did this start? In the 1990s with Michael Jordan, maybe?

It's not just athletics, either. Every TV show people currently enjoy is "the greatest television show EVER."
this pathology transcend the sports

OAT milk
 

·
justice for all
Joined
·
19,331 Posts
This madness took over this forum as well.

We cannot discuss tennis anymore but the so-called "GOAT debate" occupies at least 50% of the forum space.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,111 Posts
Federer is GOAT (Grassman Of All Time)
Nadal is COAT (Clayman Of All Time)
Djokovic is HOAT (Hardman Of All Time)
Murray is MOAT (Medalman Of All Time)
 

·
Registered
Fred
Joined
·
23,776 Posts
Basically, discussions like this are a driver of "social media engagement".

So for media companies like ESPN, it makes sense to keep spinning these discussions because it brings them money.

And why do people do it on forums like MTF?

Well, either they have been exposed to media too much, so they just do what others are doing, without consciously understanding what they're doing or why, OR they just want to feel better about themselves by saying "my player is better than your player".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,155 Posts
For me the GOAT acronym in tennis stands for GOA (Open Era) T, or GOA (pre-Open Era) T.

No amount of slams & records can make an OE goat the All-time goat, and no amount of CYGS and recently unearthed y.e. n.1 seasons & weeks can make Laver the All-time goat.
 

·
Your visions will happen
Joined
·
53,628 Posts
In every sport, it's just one "GOAT" after another.

Is this a sign of the narcissism of current generations? It's not enough that someone just be a great athlete. It has to be OF ALL TIME in order for people today to think it really means anything and that their lives have meaning as a result.

"Tom Brady is the GOAT."
"LeBron James is the GOAT."
"Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Roger Federer...no, Rafael Nadal...no, Novak Djokovic...is the GOAT."

When did this start? In the 1990s with Michael Jordan, maybe?

It's not just athletics, either. Every TV show people currently enjoy is "the greatest television show EVER."
I enjoy the world becoming more and more obsessed with records and achievements. It means that people have more interest in the history of the game or history of what they are talking about
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
I enjoy the world becoming more and more obsessed with records and achievements. It means that people have more interest in the history of the game or history of what they are talking about
I have a question: why Laver is universally spoken as being the greatest "old times" player of all times, and not Rosewall who won 4 more "slams" or big titles of the time? (23 vs 19 if I remember correctly)

Is there a topic about this?
 

·
Your visions will happen
Joined
·
53,628 Posts
I have a question: why Laver is universally spoken as being the greatest "old times" player of all times, and not Rosewall who won 4 more "slams" or big titles of the time? (23 vs 19 if I remember correctly)

Is there a topic about this?
Rosewall did win 23 slams as well as an astounding 6+ slams each on 3 different surfaces

Rosewall certainly has a claim to be the GOAT, shame he never won Wimbledon and his time at #1 was far less than Laver. Rosewall was the Nadal of his era. He had to come up and play peak Gonzales and then peak Laver like Nadal had to play peak Fed and peak Djokovic, which is why both Nadal and Rosewall have low weeks at #1 compared to the other 4, Gonzales, Federer, Laver, and Djokovic, who all have 300+ weeks while Nadal and Rosewall barely over 200
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,355 Posts
The "greatest of all time" is always some current, popular athlete. Theodor Adorno calls it "nostalgia for the present." It's basically a reflection of our reactionary obsession with ourselves and our present cultural moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
I enjoy the world becoming more and more obsessed with records and achievements. It means that people have more interest in the history of the game or history of what they are talking about
It is also necessary to understand the codes of each period, the reality of the moment ... and not only to make projections according to the current codes, like looking for the number of weeks, of YE1 which had no meaning before the establishment of aug 1973 ATP ranking and very random before its computerization week by week in the 1990's ...

This is just one example, but it shows how difficult it is to visit history (not just for tennis) according to today's embed codes. 🙄

If it is this practice, I think it's even worse and it is better not to be interested in it and to assume his ignorance without shame.

For my part, I know what concrete evolution has known tennis in its codes and its benchmarks since forty years (1978), because that is what I followed.
Easier going back to the early Connors / Borg era from 1974, because it's in a consistent continuity.

But even for the first 6 Open era seasons (1968-1973), it's already something different.

For the rest and therefore before Open era, I can only say, "I read that .." but not a little, and of course, supplementing sometimes even controversial sources.

Of course, the first mistake to avoid is to count GS like apples or pears, but that's what we are told today..
... to know who "the goat" is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,823 Posts
GOAT is an American thing, no offense.
It all started when Pete won the most slams or when Jordan burst on the scene.

If you go back in time then Mohammad Ali is nicknamed "The Greatest".

It traveled to other countries from America. Americans drive the narrative as they're the most powerful country in the world. "Great" or "good enough" isn't interesting enough, gotta be the greatest.
 

·
Your visions will happen
Joined
·
53,628 Posts
It is also necessary to understand the codes of each period, the reality of the moment ... and not only to make projections according to the current codes, like looking for the number of weeks, of YE1 which had no meaning before the establishment of aug 1973 ATP ranking and very random before its computerization week by week in the 1990's ...

This is just one example, but it shows how difficult it is to visit history (not just for tennis) according to today's embed codes. 🙄

If it is this practice, I think it's even worse and it is better not to be interested in it and to assume his ignorance without shame.

For my part, I know what concrete evolution has known tennis in its codes and its benchmarks since forty years (1978), because that is what I followed.
Easier going back to the early Connors / Borg era from 1974, because it's in a consistent continuity.

But even for the first 6 Open era seasons (1968-1973), it's already something different.

For the rest and therefore before Open era, I can only say, "I read that .." but not a little, and of course, supplementing sometimes even controversial sources.

Of course, the first mistake to avoid is to count GS like apples or pears, but that's what we are told today..
... to know who "the goat" is.
Of course one must utilize such resources as yourself and others to build the broken bridge of understanding between the generations. The people have interest, the world is talking about it, even the younger generation

We must tell the stories of all the greats of the game as well as the infrastructure of the game at the time compared to now

GOAT is an American thing, no offense.
It all started when Pete won the most slams or when Jordan burst on the scene.

If you go back in time then Mohammad Ali is nicknamed "The Greatest".

It traveled to other countries from America. Americans drive the narrative as they're the most powerful country in the world. "Great" or "good enough" isn't interesting enough, gotta be the greatest.
That is the American culture. Good is not good enough, great is not great enough, you have to be #1, the king, the emperor, the leader, the ruler
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top