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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

This sort of just came into my head.

Both guys have extreme creativity and talent, but would be disappointed with how much they've both achieved.
Who should have done more?

Other nomination would be cool as well.

Thanks

Simon V
 

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I think Rios is definitely more talented so if they both maxed out their potential, I think Rios would have done a lot more.

But as for who underachieved more, it's hard to say. Even though Rios hasn't done as much as he should have, 18 singles titles and a stint at #1 is nothing to sneeze at. I'd have to say that Hicham underachieved more in proportion to his talent. I mean really, ONE TITLE!?! I never expected Rios to be a great champion so I'd say that he got closer to his true potential than Hicham.


As for other underachievers, in no particular order:

Kafelnikov - I know most guys would dream of the career he's had, but with his talent he should have done more

Marat Safin - see above

Goran Ivanisevic - again, see above

Magnus Larson - tons of top 10 wins, but lacked conditioning due to the fact that he didn't really train. If he actually had some kind of practice regimen he might have actually won a slam.

Richard Krajicek - if it weren't for injuries, I think he'd have several slams by now

Xavier Malisse - certainly should have done more at this point in his career, though he seems to be turning it around

I'm sure there are a lot more I'm not thinking of.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Tazban,

I must say, it's easy to forget Marcelo has one 18 titles........wow. That actually surprises me a little, but I can understand that he has enough talent to do it.
He must have won heaps while at his peak..........getting to Number 1.
I think that if he had've won the Australian Open in 98 against Korda, we might be talking about him in a whole differ light.

18 titles would be so much better if it was 16 titles and 2 Grand Slams.......unfortunately......injuries took him out, similar to Carlos, at his peak.

Simon V
 

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Rios :)
 

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BOTH! But Rios had more success than Arazi.......Hicham should've been winning lots of titles and Marcelo should've been winning grand slams.
 

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Kafelnikov - I know most guys would dream of the career he's had, but with his talent he should have done more

Marat Safin - see above
Marat is still only 22..

although i agree with you that with Marat's talent he should have won more.
 

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Rios is more complete a player. Arazi is tricky and stuff, but he has limitations even playing his best. Marcelo´s game is almost flawless when he´s on. If only some players could take their heads off while they play...
:(
 

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the best I've ever seen from Rios was when he defeated Agassi at the then Lipton Championships in Key Biscayne...at that year (1998 I believe...?), Rios had an impressive string of victories and titles that eaned him high praises from John macEnroe and Agassi himself...Rios was also heavily favoured to win Roland Garros, but faltered unexpectedly on the big stage after having collected trophies in the warmup Master Series events...problem is that Rios is notorious for not putting too much effort if things are not going his way...he's been accused of tanking matches a few times, but his lack of stamina seems more like boredom sometimes to me...Even with a sometimes raucous Chilean crowd chanting for him, Rios does not seem to thrive or get energized by the fans incentive, and even if he sometimes acknowledges and thanks the crowd afterwards, his somber attitude oncourt showns otherwise...but anyway, watching Marcelo Rios "A" game is a privilege that I hope we'll keep on having for many years yet...
 

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Arazi, and to a certain extent Fabrice Santoro, has one of the best "hands" in tennis today, capable of hitting with all sorts of spins, angles and paces...and that sometimes proves damaging to their overall results...Arazi is fundamentally a shotmaker...some of his points are so beautiful that one cannot conceive this guy not having had a better career...problem is that sometimes he goes for the most beautiful and difficult shot in detriment of a simple and "unglamorous" winner...this has proved costly for him several times, even though it provides uncountable fodder for TV's "shots of the day" reports...
 

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I'd say Arazi....Rios got to number 1 and has won numerous titles, but Arazi (who I consider one of the most talented) never really played "consistently" well over a long stretch.

Overall, Rios has been the better player, but I think Arazi hasnt made the most of his talent...but still, a very fine career regardless ;)
 

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Well, Rios' career couldnt be compared to Arazi's, he has achived MUCH more. But if were talking who has the graeter talent, i would have to say Rios, cuz he also had the talent to keep on playing well over a stretch of matches (im confused & tired)
 

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Its too early to throw Marat in here, though there really is almost no excuse for him not having won at least three slams by now, buy I digress...

Mark P, if he never wins a slam, IMO will go down as a massive underachiever. Even with the injuries.

Kafelnikov was a good one - he should IMO get into the hall of fame (one of only a few guys to have won 25 doubles and 25 singles titles, a stint at number one, consistent top tenner over a decade in singles and doubles, multiple slam winner in dubs and singles, etc etc), but could have done better potentially.


Just a thought, but has anyone noticed that a lot of the really really talented players who never seem to quite max out their potential are among the most intelligent?
Rios for example, may be an ass, but he strikes me as being extremely bright. Both he and Kafel seem bored half the time they are on court, like it just isn't stimulating enough for them.

I am not saying you have to be dumb to be a consistently great player, but it is interesting in my opinion as it appears to be a pattern among *some* of the underachievers.
 

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Marcelo Rios should have won the Aus Open, but he flopped really badly on the biggest stage.
at his best he is wonderful to watch, artistry is amazing.

Hicham has always been patchy, brill results followed by a big letdown, his rank is gonna suffer now from not getting bonus pts from beating the top 10 players like he used to (no bonus pts now so it really affects guys like him).

Becca....... Rios and Kafelnikov might seem bored on court but they also give the best press conferences.
 

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Rebecca, part of the problem, especially in Rios and Arazi's cases, may be that these players are so talented that each and every shot represents innumerous possibilities...these are players that can slice, dice, topspin, lob, dropshot and so on, but sometimes this variety makes your game plan confused and your selection of shots too streaky...
 

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Rios made it to #1 in the world, and has been hobbled by injury ever since. what exactly has Arazi ever achieved? other than aking my pulse race? :lick: i'd say Hicham is the bigger underachiever of the two.

i'd like to see Kafelinikov win a TMS trophy before he retires. any one will do.

Wayne Ferrerira is talented enuf to have done more then he did but he too has been compromised by injury.

Carlos Moya had better get back into the top ten or his name will be added to this list of underachievers.

who has accomplished the most given his talent? Gianluca Pozzi...:hearts:
 

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Ace Tracker said:
Rebecca, part of the problem, especially in Rios and Arazi's cases, may be that these players are so talented that each and every shot represents innumerous possibilities...these are players that can slice, dice, topspin, lob, dropshot and so on, but sometimes this variety makes your game plan confused and your selection of shots too streaky...
This reminds me of one year a long time ago when Kafelnikov was playing the U.S. open and either Barry or Cliff said a similar thing. He was saying how he wished Kafelnikov would get a coach to teach him how to win because Yevgeny was hitting wrong shots when they should have been obvious and easy winners. Of course, it doesn't help that all these players are head cases.
 

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Jessi said:


Marat is still only 22..

although i agree with you that with Marat's talent he should have won more.
Yeah, I actually hesitated when I put him on there, but there's no doubt that he underachieved up to this point so I put him there anyway. I think he should have won at least three slams by now and number 1 for a lot longer than he has. I realize that players need time to work their games out, but I think Marat's game has been there for a long time. It's just a matter of him committing to it more. That's what frustrates me so much about Marat. He's so hugely talented and it seems like every shot is a weapon for him, it's just a matter of him deciding to win, and then he doesn't.

Malisse is only 22 as well, but he's had zero titles in both singles and doubles so, even though he may be a bit too young, I think he's a definite underachiever. I never expected him to be great, but he should have done a lot more than that.
 
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