Mens Tennis Forums banner

Who is the better clay court player?

  • Keurten

    Votes: 26 42.6%
  • Djokovic

    Votes: 35 57.4%

  • Total voters
    61
1 - 20 of 85 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Keurten is right up there with the all time clay greats. Was a true clay court specialist winning FO in convincing fashion and having a very solid record there

Djokovic technically has a weaker record at FO, but at the same time he had to come across Nadal and other peaking players time after time. His clay game is actually pretty solid and has won him a lot of masters.

With all that said who do you consider the better clay court player?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
Keurten is right up there with the all time clay greats. Was a true clay court specialist winning FO in convincing fashion and having a very solid record there

Djokovic technically has a weaker record at FO, but at the same time he had to come across Nadal and other peaking players time after time. His clay game is actually pretty solid and has won him a lot of masters.

With all that said who do you consider the better clay court player?
Of course it's Djokovic. Much better player. And if there weren't for Nadal, Djokovic would have more FOs in still tougher competition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
Kuerten plays a natural samba free flowing clay court game, silk smooth and beautiful to watch, almost like beach volley on Copacabana.

Nole's game is robotic, ruthlessly effective, playing like a defensive inhuman wall.

I vote for Kuerten as a clay all time great, although Nole is a better tennis player without a doubt.
Point of tennis is to be effective, not to be stylish. You don't get the points for style.

And no, Novak's game isn't robotic, it's actually good to watch, especially if you understand tennis.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
6,250 Posts
Can only go on results, and even as a Nole fan, 3 RGs is still trumps.
Guga won 4 clay Masters as well, less than Nole, but still good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
I wanna see 2001 Guga vs 2006 Fed on clay.
Since Guga didn't have baby Rafa's intensity and topspin, I would assume that Fed wouldn't brainfart against Guga like he did against baby Rafa that year. So I don't think Guga could seriously challenge Fed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,644 Posts
I thought it was another trolling thread but then I noticed our little friend Kowchi made it :bigwave:. He could be trolling too. Nobody is immune nowadays 0:).

... and the Oscar goes to ............. one and only Mr. Gustavo Kuerten :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:.

Rules
1. If you disagree with me, you are trolling.
2. If you try to say something different, look at rule #1,
you are trolling.
3. If you say anything that contradicts with rule #1 and
rule#2, you are trolling.
4. If you are still not sure, go back to rule #1
:nerner:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,862 Posts
Since Guga didn't have baby Rafa's intensity and topspin, I would assume that Fed wouldn't brainfart against Guga like he did against baby Rafa that year. So I don't think Guga could seriously challenge Fed.
A washed-up Kuerten straight setted an almost peak Federer on clay and you don't think he wouldn't "seriously challenge" him :weirdo:

Federer was losing to Nalbandian before the latter got injured at the French that year, and Nalbandian definitely wasn't as good as Kuerten on clay peak vs peak. Federer was better in 2006 than in 2004 but not by much, Kuerten on the other had was declining for some time, and still routined him. He won 3 RG despite being destroyed by injuries from early in his career, if not he would have maybe won as much as Borg or at least close to it. And despite not being as great as Nadal, because nobody is, he would have been a serious challenge for him peak vs peak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
A washed-up Kuerten straight setted an almost peak Federer on clay and you don't think he wouldn't "seriously challenge" him :weirdo:

Federer was losing to Nalbandian before the latter got injured at the French that year, and Nalbandian definitely wasn't as good as Kuerten on clay peak vs peak. Federer was better in 2006 than in 2004 but not by much, Kuerten on the other had was declining for some time, and still routined him. He won 3 RG despite being destroyed by injuries from early in his career, if not he would have maybe won as much as Borg or at least close to it. And despite not being as great as Nadal, because nobody is, he would have been a serious challenge for him peak vs peak.
I admit this doesn't look good for Fed. So I guess peak Guga could challenge peak Fed on clay, but I still think Fed would win.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,832 Posts
-Outside RG Djokovic would be the favorite but in RG Kuerten would peak and probably beat Djokovic.

189 - 80 is Kuerten record on clay, around 70%. But we must agree that from 2002 onwards Kuerten faced many injuries that hampered his career. We should increase his % to at least 72-73% because of that.

199-52 is the Djokovic record on clay, around 79% which is way better than Kuerten. But then again Kuerten had 15 titles on clay against only 13 by Djokovic. We can say that Kuerten has more titles because he didnt have to face Nadal, so Djokovic would be superior to Kuerten. However Kuerten also faced some very good clay specialists like Bruguera, Muster (77% on clay) to win his Rgs, so my conclusion is that Kuerten would probably be very tough to beat on Roland Garros but Djokovic would be the favorite outside Paris.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,644 Posts
Also, let me help you out with Fed.

Prime Guga >>>> than a prime Fed on clay.

Kuerten was so natural on clay, his game was effortless ... like fish in the water. He was A-M-A-Z-I-N-G ON CLAY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,644 Posts
How about Guga vs Muster?
Still, IMO it's Guga but it's questionable and subjective. Muster was great on clay. RG is still a big question mark on his resume. Yes, Muster's '95 and '96 clay seasons were 'wow, oh my God' ... Muster had something like 111W and 5L.

Someone might bring Vilas too. That's a really tough one. Again, only 1 RG win, but 49 clay titles. Only Rafa won more.

My list would go something like this and I'm only 100% sure about #1 and #2.
1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Kuerten, Lendl
4. Vilas, Muster ... just because of RG but it really depends and it gets too complicated
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Djokovic is the far better player. Despite having to face Nadal, he still managed to grab 8 clay masters, vs. only 4 for Kuerten, who wasn't facing competition anywhere near as tough.

I mean, Djokovic's clay win % is 79.37%, Kuerten's was 69.9%. They're actually not that close.

Kuerten's accomplishments are greater so far, of course, with 3 RGs. So he's maybe greater, but Djokovic is much better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Obviously (as already hinted by Alex999 earlier in the thread) OP is trolling. Comparing Djokovic to Gustavo Keurten - a player with an all-time-high ranking of 436 - which he achieved after defending his future title at Fundão open for the second time (given him the third FO title that OP was referring to) should have given it away. But, I guess, once the first response confused Keurten with the more famous Kuerten, it was inevitable that everyone would get it wrong.:wink2:
 
1 - 20 of 85 Posts
Top