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Inb4 Lenders.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I thought about discounting aces but then there are also putaways after good serves, you can't discount the former and count the latter.
Forced/unforced errors are way too arbitrary stats.
 

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I thought about discounting aces but then there are also putaways after good serves, you can't discount the former and count the latter.
Forced/unforced errors are way too arbitrary stats.
These are called service winners and they are counted as forced errors.

All these stats are arbitrary. Says nothing about pushing or not. Having multiple winners can also be caused by the fact that the opponent is not in the right mindset to play the match. And there are many opponents who (despite playing aggressively) you can't defeat with winners, only by forcing their error.
 

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Discount aces please.
Btw , not only aces count as winners, but even some serves where the opponent racket touches the ball but it doesnt land on court. So even discounting the aces you wouldnt get a proper picture, because the almost-aces are lumped with the winners but not in the ace-count.
 

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Btw , not only aces count as winners, but even some serves where the opponent racket touches the ball but it doesnt land on court. So even discounting the aces you wouldnt get a proper picture, because the almost-aces are lumped with the winners but not in the ace-count.
It would be closer to reality, as Raonic has served 47 aces so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
These are called service winners and they are counted as forced errors.

All these stats are arbitrary. Says nothing about pushing or not. Having multiple winners can also be caused by the fact that the opponent is not in the right mindset to play the match. And there are many opponents who (despite playing aggressively) you can't defeat with winners, only by forcing their error.
Wrong. As blueclay explained, service winners are 'near-aces' which returner (barely) manages to get to but unable to put back in court.
Winners are not arbitrary stats.
 

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ace count absolutely kills these stats

trust me, Cilic in no fashion or form is hitting that many more baseline winners than everyone else
 

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Wrong. As blueclay explained, service winners are 'near-aces' which returner (barely) manages to get to but unable to put back in court.
Winners are not arbitrary stats.
I stand corrected about that near-aces.

But trust me, discounting aces should be the first thing you should take out.

Oh Hell, I'll do it, and post it in the OP alongside yours.
 

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I didn't think service winners where the returner gets the racquet on the ball but not back in play were considered winners.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ace count absolutely kills these stats

trust me, Cilic in no fashion or form is hitting that many more baseline winners than everyone else
so now it's only baseline winners that count? :lol: keep going, guys.

Anyway, discounting aces would only hurt the usual suspects (Isner, Karlovic, Raonic). Cilic would be 2nd and Nadal would still be at the bottom of the list.

Tursunov 78/184 = 42.4%
Cilic 78/189 = 41.3%
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Djokovic 60/177 = 33.9%
Raonic 56/169 = 33.1%
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Isner 70/219 = 32.0%
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Federer 53/177 = 29.9%
Karlovic 46/159 = 28.9
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Nadal 42/181 = 23.2%
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I stand corrected about that near-aces.

But trust me, discounting aces should be the first thing you should take out.

Oh Hell, I'll do it, and post it in the OP alongside yours.
Stop telling me what I should do or post, it's none of your business as long as I don't break the forum's rules. If yo are that insecure create your own thread.
 

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If you delete ace stats to stop the inflation due to aces (Karlovic, Raonic), you should also exclude the service winners, since it counts for won points. If you are Karlovic, you are also way more likely to hit more service winners, which would make your total points won go up (negative for your percentage), while you don't get the benefits on the other side of the equation (aces no longer count).

And you should also delete double faults made by the opponent. The players couldn't make that a winner, so it's unfair to get that at total points won.
 

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If you delete ace stats to stop the inflation due to aces (Karlovic, Raonic), you should also exclude the service winners, since it counts for won points. If you are Karlovic, you are also way more likely to hit more service winners, which would make your total points won go up (negative for your percentage), while you don't get the benefits on the other side of the equation (aces no longer count).

And you should also delete double faults made by the opponent. The players couldn't make that a winner, so it's unfair to get that at total points won.
Agreed. Going by this, anyone who faces Janowicz will be called a pusher. :lol:


Also agree that if one wants to discount aces, one also has to remove the same from the total points won. Then remove service winners, then remove the big serve followed by an easy put away. Someone mentioned counting only basline winners, which is quite ridiculous. Why discount volley winners? Basically, IMO, these stats make the most sense as the OP has shown them, without removing this and that. Else, it just becomes more and more arbitrary.
 
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