[PileDrive]

This thread is brought to you by the FBI and is inspired by Sepp Blatter and Fifa .

 

[Sharkpova]

 

[Iblis_00]

Doping and it ain't even close.

 

[AndyNonomous]

Of course, I don't have to say.

People here can read my mind, apparently.

 

[PileDrive]

To be honest, i never believed-- not accusing as i have no evidence- in the potential of Draw fixing thing until that Isner-Mahut 1st round rematch in Wimbledon 2011..But that was ridiculous by historic precedents.. any mathematician in here? what was probability of it back then?

 

[Mark Lenders]

Doping by a huge distance.

 

[Popo21]

Match fixing is probably the most done, just because of the lower levels. I really don't see why guys ranked like 500+ and are over 25 (never going to actually make it) wouldn't do it. You can win a tournament and make like $900 US or you can fix a match and probably make about 5k pretty easily without anybody knowing.

Also, with all the options something like Bet365 has you could easily throw a set or even service game and make a quick $1000 without anybody noticing.

I don't know enough about the doping testing in tennis to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is something that's done often too, especially in the off-season. All you have to do is go train in some area that no tester would visit without you knowing and you could have a good two months of juicing to get in shape.

 

[PileDrive]

Doping by a huge distance.

How would you rank the above forms of "foul play" by degree of prevalence; if you think all of these scourges indeed infest the sport?

 

[Mark Lenders]

How would you rank the above forms of "foul play" by degree of prevalence; if you think all of these scourges indeed infest the sport?

Doping >>>>>>>>>>>>> match fixing >> draw fixing >> mild gamesmanship tactics

 

[BodyServe]

To be honest, i never believed-- not accusing as i have no evidence- in the potential of Draw fixing thing until that Isner-Mahut 1st round rematch in Wimbledon 2011..But that was ridiculous by historic precedents.. any mathematician in here? what was probability of it back then?

To be fair it wasn't a 1st round but a 2nd round in 2011.

They did the same in 2012 but Falla spoiled the party.

 

[PileDrive]

Match fixing is probably the most done, just because of the lower levels. I really don't see why guys ranked like 500+ and are over 25 (never going to actually make it) wouldn't do it. You can win a tournament and make like $900 US or you can fix a match and probably make about 5k pretty easily without anybody knowing.

Also, with all the options something like Bet365 has you could easily throw a set or even service game and make a quick $1000 without anybody noticing.

I don't know enough about the doping testing in tennis to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is something that's done often too, especially in the off-season. All you have to do is go train in some area that no tester would visit without you knowing and you could have a good two months of juicing to get in shape.

This more less my thinking..For doping--if there is large scale, highest-level systemic edifice-- it is it going to crumble sooner or later..Nothing would get swept under the rug forever in today's world..Heck Snowden and and Wikileaks happened at the expense of American empire, let alone whistlblowing about a fringe issue like tennis and PED :lol:..we will see..

 

[Sunflowerseed]

Match fixing is probably the most done, just because of the lower levels. I really don't see why guys ranked like 500+ and are over 25 (never going to actually make it) wouldn't do it. You can win a tournament and make like $900 US or you can fix a match and probably make about 5k pretty easily without anybody knowing.

Also, with all the options something like Bet365 has you could easily throw a set or even service game and make a quick $1000 without anybody noticing.

I don't know enough about the doping testing in tennis to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is something that's done often too, especially in the off-season. All you have to do is go train in some area that no tester would visit without you knowing and you could have a good two months of juicing to get in shape.

I agree with this. It's not going to happen so much at the top levels, because there is less incentive, and more chance of getting caught. But the volume of play at the lower levels counts here.

At the top levels, I'd say mild gamesmanship is fairly prevalent. We've all seen a few questionable MTOs and lengthy bathroom breaks.

With both of these, I can see players convincing themselves it's not proper cheating, and plausible deniability, so relatively low risk.

Who knows with doping. I know there is some, but there's no evidence there is more of them at it than take a dubious MTO from time to time.

 

[Mark Lenders]

This more less my thinking..For doping--if there is large scale, highest-level systemic edifice-- it is it going to crumble sooner or later..Nothing would get swept under the rug forever in today's world..Heck Snowden and and Wikileaks happened at the expense of American empire, let alone whistlblowing about a fringe issue like tennis and PED :lol:..we will see..

Of course, everything will be exposed sooner or later. Tennis is following the exact same patterns as cycling or baseball in their 'heyday', age of top players rising exponentially, players peaking for certain events and performing well below it the rest of the time (Armstrong was famous for peaking at the Tour de France and being basically ordinary to non-existent during the rest of the year)...

 

[bjurra]

I really don't see why doping would be that common. Advanced doping that is performance enhancing and hard to catch takes some skills, knowledge and preparation. In a team sport like Tour de France, that can be arranged. But in tennis?

A. Players travel all the time, to carry doping classed stuff across borders is risky.
B. Most players don't play many matches longer than three hours anyway.
C. Most players don't have the financial resources to pay for advanced doping.
D. If you do have the financial resources, why risk your entire career by doping? It might not even have a significant effect on your results.

 

[bjurra]

Of course, everything will be exposed sooner or later. Tennis is following the exact same patterns as cycling or baseball in their 'heyday', age of top players rising exponentially, players peaking for certain events and performing well below it the rest of the time (Armstrong was famous for peaking at the Tour de France and being basically ordinary to non-existent during the rest of the year)...

In cycling, doping will most likely have a measurable effect on your performance, in tennis less so.

 

[PileDrive]

Of course, everything will be exposed sooner or later. Tennis is following the exact same patterns as cycling or baseball in their 'heyday', age of top players rising exponentially, players peaking for certain events and performing well below it the rest of the time (Armstrong was famous for peaking at the Tour de France and being basically ordinary to non-existent during the rest of the year)...

I don't wholly appreciate the equivalence there..Tour de France is Cycling only "Slam", so where else would you want Cyclist to peak? The only other relevant race was Olympics in recent times..

 

[Mark Lenders]

I really don't see why doping would be that common. Advanced doping that is performance enhancing and hard to catch takes some skills, knowledge and preparation. In a team sport like Tour de France, that can be arranged. But in tennis?

A. Players travel all the time, to carry doping classed stuff across borders is risky.
B. Most players don't play many matches longer than three hours anyway.
C. Most players don't have the financial resources to pay for advanced doping.
D. If you do have the financial resources, why risk your entire career by doping? It might not even have a significant effect on your results.

A. That's not how doping works, you don't have to carry substances around with you all the time.
B. Increased endurance is not the only way to increase performance in tennis, far from it. I won't go into details about all possible PED application but just take a look at track and field and the 100m dash for an example of how it's not just about endurance.
C. No one is claiming doping is systemic in the Futures your, we're talking ATP level
D. Because in a sport where doping is systemtic if you don't join in you won't have a career to speak of anyway.

 

[Mark Lenders]

I don't wholly appreciate the equivalence there..Tour de France is Cycling only "Slam", so where else would you want Cyclist to peak? The only other relevant race was Olympics in recent times..

There are three Grand Tours in cycling, the Giro, the Vuelta and the Tour de France, the latter being the most important. Armstrong was basically average all year and then suddenly became superman as the Tour de France approached. It now makes perfect sense why that was the case.

In cycling, doping will most likely have a measurable effect on your performance, in tennis less so.

Wrong. Being stronger will have an effect on your performance, being able to recover faster between matches and training sessions will have a massive effect on your performance, being just a little bit quicker also.

Look at the top of the game, almost everyone has got either freakish strength, endurance or both. Being able to get to more balls, being able to keep your intensity for longer, being able to hit the ball harder for longer, all have huge effects on performance.

 

[ProdigyEng]

Foot faulting that goes unnoticed

 

[Federer-Fan]

I don't wholly appreciate the equivalence there..Tour de France is Cycling only "Slam", so where else would you want Cyclist to peak? The only other relevant race was Olympics in recent times..

Tour de France is the most important race for sure, but there are plenty of other relevant races. Among 3-week-races, Giro and to a lesser extent Vuelta are prestigious. As for one day races, you have Olympics, World Championships, Milan San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Paris-Roubaix, Liège Bastogne Liège and Giro di Lombardia. :yeah:
So there are 10 relevant races (including Olympics) in cycling.

Given Armstrong's style, obviously he was a 3-week-races rider though (only focusing on Tour de France in his case)...