Fedalray on HC is a much more impressive group than Fedovicray on clay (where Murray especially isn't great).
Gotta go with Djokovic.
Gotta go with Djokovic.
Which of these two records is more impressive - Djokovic on slow HC vs Nadal on clay?
Djokovic is 17-2 on slow outdoor HC (AO-IW-Miami) against Federer, Nadal and Murray and leads 6-0 at AO*.
Nadal is 33-6 on clay against Federer, Djokovic and Murray and leads 13-0 at RG.
* Until 2007, AO's surface wasn't as slow as today (though rebound ace wasn't extremely fast), so I decided not to count Federer vs Djokovic at AO 2007 since my point is about slow HC.
Nadal is 33-6 on clay against Federer, Djokovic and Murray and leads 13-0 at RG.
* Until 2007, AO's surface wasn't as slow as today (though rebound ace wasn't extremely fast), so I decided not to count Federer vs Djokovic at AO 2007 since my point is about slow HC.
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Djokovic has kept a very high standards and deserve a rightful comparison, but I still see Nadal's clay record is a level way above, Nadal even when struggles and not at his near best can still sweep the clay season, in contrast, on Fed's day he will beat what ever Djoko shows up on slow surface at his prime.
I'd definitely take peak Federer over peak Djokovic on grass, clay, fast outdoor HC and indoor HC. It's more difficult to say he would win easily on slow outdoor HC though, the fact Federer has a 5-0 losing record (including two losses before 2011) shows he doesn't like to face Djokovic on slow outdoor HC.Djokovic has kept a very high standards and deserve a rightful comparison, but I still see Nadal's clay record is a level way above, Nadal even when struggles and not at his near best can still sweep the clay season, in contrast, on Fed's day he will beat what ever Djoko shows up on slow surface at his prime.
A typical Fedtard's way of degrading Nadal's clay achievement. It doesn't take a degree to understand 9 RG >>>>> 4 AO, what's the need for all the discussion? 9 RG >> 7 Wimby, 9 RG >>>>> 4 AO, end of debate.
I can't think of anyone who would have beaten nole at the ao 2008
He lost 1 set and that was to the best version of tonga I've ever seen ( destroyed nadal )
He lost 1 set and that was to the best version of tonga I've ever seen ( destroyed nadal )
AO'11 was pretty much the same (1 set lost 10-8 in a TB to Dodig :lolI can't think of anyone who would have beaten nole at the ao 2008
He lost 1 set and that was to the best version of tonga I've ever seen ( destroyed nadal )
.
I'm not degrading Nadal's clay achievements at all, the numbers I gave about Nadal are impressive (33-6 overall, 13-0 at RG). I just think Djokovic's stats are just as good in this specific case. Btw I never said Djokovic at AO is better than Nadal at RG, I'm not that stupid.A typical Fedtard's way of degrading Nadal's clay achievement. It doesn't take a degree to understand 9 RG >>>>> 4 AO, what's the need for all the discussion? 9 RG >> 7 Wimby, 9 RG >>>>> 4 AO, end of debate.
The one that doesn't include beating Murray on clay.
That said, of course Nadal on clay > Djokovic on slow HC overall
That said, of course Nadal on clay > Djokovic on slow HC overall
A slams win is way more important than any Masters win, so it's not appropriate to compare overall clay record and slow HC record.I'm not degrading Nadal's clay achievements at all, the numbers I gave about Nadal are impressive (33-6 overall, 13-0 at RG). I just think Djokovic's stats are just as good in this specific case. Btw I never said Djokovic at AO is better than Nadal at RG, I'm not that stupid.
Both are unbeaten in their favorite Slam (since AO became slower anyway) against other Big 4 members, so even in the case we only count AO and RG it's still a fair comparison. The thread isn't about who is better on their respective best surface, since it's obviously Nadal.A slams win is way more important than any Masters win, so it's not appropriate to compare overall clay record and slow HC record.
Although nadal at rg is an untouchable record
It is arguable to make the case that djokovic at the AO is equally impressive if not more so
Nadal never had a natural clay court rival
Djokovic has basically everyone in the top ten
Fed in 2008 was still excellent
Nadal just came Into form and became an all court player
Murray is excellent on hard courts
Then you have just excellent dark horse players that you haven't really had on clay
Stan the man obviously
Tonga
Ferrer will never be given credit but he is excellent
Simon is a nightmare to play against
Nadal had one great player peaking at the French
Soderling and he lost
It is arguable to make the case that djokovic at the AO is equally impressive if not more so
Nadal never had a natural clay court rival
Djokovic has basically everyone in the top ten
Fed in 2008 was still excellent
Nadal just came Into form and became an all court player
Murray is excellent on hard courts
Then you have just excellent dark horse players that you haven't really had on clay
Stan the man obviously
Tonga
Ferrer will never be given credit but he is excellent
Simon is a nightmare to play against
Nadal had one great player peaking at the French
Soderling and he lost
Nadal leads Djokovic 2-1 at US Open :lol:
And Djokovic's only win over Nadal at the AO took 6 hours
And Djokovic's only win over Nadal at the AO took 6 hours
Not really a fair comparison. For Nadal you are counting the whole surface, for Djokovic only three types of court that fall under the Hard court umbrella.
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Far more and stronger competition on Slow Hard courts than on clay. So even though Nadal is by far the best clay court player of this generation, I have to give this one to Djoko. The overall competition is simply stronger on slow HC than on clay. Upsets are more likely and one cannot use the argument that the clay field is weak because Rafa is too strong. That gets debunked by the fact that nobody outside of Nadal stopped Roger for years at the French Open and now recently nobody but Rafa and Fed are stopping Djoko...
the clay court specialist obviously
Djokovic of course. Nadal plays in the weakest clay era ever and has been exceptionally lucky against Fed and Djoker at RG. Or cheated against them, like in the RG 2011 final. Plus, no one cares about mud.
Djokovic is getting there, but Nadal's is still more impressive.
Not really a competition, was anyone ever been as impresive as Nadal on clay? And kept doing it for so many years in row?
(I'm saying this and I dont even like Nadal)
(I'm saying this and I dont even like Nadal)
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