Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 20 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've heard convenient reasoning from friends who are Federer fans which basically suggest that there is no way that Nadal or Djokovic could overtake Federer as the greatest ever (I never cared fort the GOAT acronym.)

For instance, after Djokovic beat Federer in '14 and '15 in the Wimbledon Finals and it looked like Djokovic could eventually surpass Federer's grand slam total after his French Open win in '16, I heard, "Yeah, but Djokovic beat an older Federer and besides, now there's no competition out there. (Then Fed had his resurgence and won three more, so the "no competition" argument became somewhat detrimental rather than useful.)

These friends are very protective of Federer and didn't want Nadal or Djokovic to win the US Open for fear of getting closer to Federer's 20, which I don't understand, besides the fact that these guys are in love with Federer. But if a guy is better in the end than another, than he's just better.

So my question is, what would Nadal or Djokovic have to accomplish to be considered the best ever? If one of them ends up with 21 and Federer doesn't win another one, will be enough to overtake Federer in the debate? Or would you expect creative reasoning, mostly from Fed diehards, why he is still the best?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
Your friends are right. There is nothing Nadull and Djoker can do to be considered greater than Fed. Federer will always be the GOAT of tennis no matter what.

It's not all about the numbers you know. There is something magical about Fed when he's playing tennis and that's why he has been named the GOAT even before he gets to the Sampras GS record.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
We have had this discussion in like 1000 threads around this forum. Now after a little bit the Federer police will arrive and it will get ugly.
Haha, sorry Skywalker. I meant to preface the post with a "Sorry if this topic has been written about often."
And thanks for the warning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
Federer has been considered the greatest ever by the majority of the media, experts and players even before surpassing Sampras 14 GS titles. This means two things:
1) Djokovic or Nadal can very well be the greatest ever even without surpassing his 20 GS
2) There must be something else to Federer than ‘just’ his GS record. You name it: playing style, personality, being the face of tennis. Like it or not, but it’s not only the records he holds.

Now the other two are close and have both positif H2H against Federer. You can make a claim, or maybe wait a couple of years since they will for sure add more to their career resume than Federer will and it will be very close.
I mean each of the three fanbases has their fair share of people proclaiming their own favorite as greatest ever. It’s ok, the topics are somewhat amusing and it’s always the same argument. I guess we will have to wait a couple of years after each of the three retire to see who will be considered the greatest ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,049 Posts


But seriously, I think you need to at least equal Feds slam count to have a solid case. Unlike you have something truly exceptional like a CYGS in your pocket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,592 Posts
Haha, sorry Skywalker. I meant to preface the post with a "Sorry if this topic has been written about often."
And thanks for the warning.
I just wanted to spare you the moment when this people come here and start writing nonsense :). You see they are already here. They will spend all their day writing about Federer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
I just wanted to spare you the moment when this people come here and start writing nonsense :). You see they are already here. They will spend all their day writing about Federer.
You're actually the only one until know writing nonsense in this thread. I shared my opinion, said that they could very well be considered the greatest ever. The only thing you have contributed to a topic, which could actually become an interesting discussion, is the "Federer fans are bad" trolling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,973 Posts
They just have to equal his GS count, nothing more. Fedtards have used the "only slams matter" argument so many times in the past that it has now become part of the collective subconscious of mankind. Nothing can erase it anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,583 Posts
Federer isn't the clear GOAT, he is the greatest of the open era (GOAT-OE).
Nadal has to get one more slam than Fed to be the same because of his single surface skew and 0 year end championships.
If Djok equals, he can be called the greatest since he has almost equal year end championships and more masters.

If any of them do it, they will deserve GOAT-OE status:
1. Djokovic would have to win 8 slams after turning 30 - (6 more). Unprecedented feat.
2. Nadal would have to win 7 slams after turning 30 - (4 more). Unprecedented feat.
3. If they win 4 or 6 more slams, they will go past Fed's Weeks at #1, Year end #1 as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,937 Posts
Federer isn't the clear GOAT, he is the greatest of the open era (GOAT-OE).
Nadal has to get one more slam than Fed to be the same because of his single surface skew and 0 year end championships.
If Djok equals, he can be called the greatest since he has almost equal year end championships and more masters.

If any of them do it, they will deserve GOAT-OE status:
1. Djokovic would have to win 8 slams after turning 30 - (6 more). Unprecedented feat.
2. Nadal would have to win 7 slams after turning 30 - (4 more). Unprecedented feat.
3. If they win 4 or 6 more slams, they will go past Fed's Weeks at #1, Year end #1 as well.
If Nadal would end up with 21 out of which 14-15 would be RG titles, it would still be incredibly clay skewed résumé.
There is no way that such player could be considered greatest that ever played on HC and grass. He would need at least 1 more WB and 3 more HC slams IMO.

His indoor results don't help GOAT case either, since indoor tennis rewards skill and finesse w/o external factors, in which his extremely high percentage style doesn't get nearly as many advantages.

That argument works in Nadal's favor too, since no one could consider Federer the greatest ever on clay, especially because his results against Nadal on clay are horrible.
Still, his GOAT claim is better than Nadal's since he's grass GOAT and (arguably) HC Goat and (arguably) indoor GOAT.

Djokovic could make his claim to status of greatest ever most solid but it depends on his future results. IMO he needs 2 more RG titles at least and few more slams elsewhere (at least 1 more WB would be nice).

It could also happen that Djokovic ends up his career just as undisputed HC goat if he tops Federer's HC GS number.

So Nadal and Federer are already greatest ever on clay and grass but Novak has a chance to become best overall if he ends up with most well rounded résumé.
 
1 - 20 of 62 Posts
Top