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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

This guy is SPOT on!

Just look at David Ferrer. Most people on here seem to think that the poor guy has no talent at all, when in reality he is one of the most talented players to play the sport the last few years.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

I think that when people say that Gasquet and Wawrinka have more talent than Nadal, they have a very specific definition of talent in mind. They're talking about variety and improvisational skills, and maybe the ability to make extremely difficult shots look easy. Of course Nadal has talent. But his game is based on the same patterns over and over again. When he hits a serve out wide followed by a forehand winner down the line (something we've seen him do a million times), it's less impressive than when someone like Dimitrov hits a fantastic passing shot one point followed by a tricky drop volley the next. Furthermore, Nadal really looks like he's working hard on every point, whereas other players, particularly Federer when he was at his peak, make the game look so easy.

Does Nadal have less talent than these guys, using the dictionary definition of talent? No. He has used his talent to develop an extremely effective style of play. But is this style of play less entertaining than that the other players I've mentioned? Arguably yes, and that's why people claim that he is less talented.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

This guy is SPOT on!

Just look at David Ferrer. Most people on here seem to think that the poor guy has no talent at all, when in reality he is one of the most talented players to play the sport the last few years.
Ferrer isn't that talented. He's just incredibly consistent and mentally tough against players ranked lower than him.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Don't agree with Loth one bit. His definition of 'talent' is way too broad. His conclusions basically come down to the most successful is the most talented. Talent is not synonymous with being good at something. It generally refers to a innate ability/skill/aptitude. Agreed that for pro sportsmen who have trained all their live to get where they are, it is extremely tough to judge what came naturally. But, there are various aspects that are very easily agreed upon as not a natural ability. One is not gifted to be mentally strong when in pressure situations, it is something that is developed by conditioning yourself(and of course through life experiences).

As already mentioned in this thread, when discussing tennis talent specifically, general athletic abilities do not come to mind. For instance, racquet control and footwork are tennis-specific talents, but speed and strength are not.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

When speaking of talent, how dare you put Dull in the same sentence as Roger.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Don't agree with Loth one bit. His definition of 'talent' is way too broad. His conclusions basically come down to the most successful is the most talented. Talent is not synonymous with being good at something. It generally refers to a innate ability/skill/aptitude. Agreed that for pro sportsmen who have trained all their live to get where they are, it is extremely tough to judge what came naturally. But, there are various aspects that are very easily agreed upon as not a natural ability. One is not gifted to be mentally strong when in pressure situations, it is something that is developed by conditioning yourself(and of course through life experiences).

As already mentioned in this thread, when discussing tennis talent specifically, general athletic abilities do not come to mind. For instance, racquet control and footwork are tennis-specific talents, but speed and strength are not.
Footwork and speed to me sort of go hand in hand.
But I guess we can say someone like Nadal and Ferrer have both amazing speed and footwork while someone like LeMonf has absolutely amazing speed but not that great when it comes to footwork.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

For me "talent" when it comes to tennis is only one thing - the feeling you have of the ball with the racquet in your hand.

Developing this to make a tennis career is a whole different story and talent overall is approximately 5% of the whole package.

That's why i do believe Rafa has less talent than Federer. And i'd give you an example - make them play with an oven mitt on the playing hand - Federer's game goes 50% down, Rafa's goes 20%.

That's ow i see it. That's why Rafa could play with a zillion blisters on his hand. He probably doesn't feel anything with the left one (doesn't even need to sit on it for the long Xisca-less nights abroad... :lol: ), while Fed would need every nerve end on his hand to have a proper feel of the ball through the racquet.

That's why Fed is the first one to regularly change racquets around new balls games, while Rafa could play with an old Roger's racquet you might not see the difference at all.

You take 10 5yo kids, you train them for 6 month and ask them to do a FH drop shot - the most talented one will pull a great one, the others might not reach the net, or hit the roof. That's where talent is, specifically for tennis in my personal perception of the thing.

Then again, to make a career out of it you need 19 other qualities to make it the full package and be at 100%.

Some will lack the working ethics, others will be unstable mentally, or slow, no flexibility,or let go at 13 coz in love and fuck it all, others will not have the brain cells to control the talent, etc., etc. so one player without any tennis talent (the way i see tennis talent) could very well make a tennis career and even be in the top positions, coz 19 out of 20 is well enough.

David Ferrer is not the man you'd expect to make a touch shot, but he's the man you know will be almost always in the right osition to hit the ball, he will always give his last breath to run down a doomed ball, he will always execute his shots the exact same way, with an unmatchable consistency that a few of his other 19 qualities have pulled him to train this through, etc.

So, being athletic is a talent, being a sports workoholic is a talent, never letting go is a talent, being serious and dedicated is a talent, but these are talents that could be converted to several other sports, like Monfils could easily be a great long jumper, or basket player, while Ferrer could be an awesome medium distance runner, or mma fighter, but still - the specific tennis talent is the hands, the nerve ends that transfer the feeling fast to the brain and gets uncoded fast and accurate.

In today's game talent is imho 5% of the package, while years ago it's been probably over 20 even 30%, but the reasons for this are a whole different conversation.

That's my personal opinion.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

It's very difficult to separate hard work and talent. Nadal has spectacular footwork, but it is by dint of practice or innate talent? Do Federer and Djokovic have amazing extension because they were so gifted or because they worked harder on flexibility than others? Probably only their childhood coaches know.

This is an interesting article in talent vs hard work http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-procrastination-equation/201110/hard-work-beats-talent-only-if-talent-doesn-t-work-hard.

Basically it is saying that if a naturally talented person is also willing to work hard, that person rises to the top and that is more important in an area where only the best of the best can succeed.

I see things a little different than most here, I guess. I think Wawrinka is an example of a less gifted guy who has had to work very hard to be where he is.

For me, both Federer and Nadal sometimes make the impossible seem easy. At times they both work very hard to win points and look as if they are working hard. This goes for Djokovic too except that for me Djokovic generates power with a more fluid "easier" stroke than either Federer or Nadal. It reminds me of Lindsay Davenport.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

The knock on Nadal is that a lot of his game is engineered through sheer strength rather than technique. Try and and teach anyone else how to play his style and they will fail dismally unless they have a comparable physically stature. The perfect example of Nadal's numerous "impossible" passing shots. They're achieved purely through speed, reach and ridiculous brute strength rather than superior tennis technique.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

For me, both Federer and Nadal sometimes make the impossible seem easy. At times they both work very hard to win points and look as if they are working hard. This goes for Djokovic too except that for me Djokovic generates power with a more fluid "easier" stroke than either Federer or Nadal. It reminds me of Lindsay Davenport.
I think both Federer and Nadal generate easier power than Novak. Federer especially has been lauded for years for having an effortless looking forehand that generates great power without the appearance of giving a lot of effort.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Things like speed, strength, stamina .... those are all transferable between sports. You use those in football, American football, hockey, basketball, baseball, MMA, boxing, etc. But skill with the racquet is the main facet of "talent" in tennis. Speed, strength, agility, physique, and stamina can be developed but it's not a talent. That being said, what Nadal does with his racquet takes skill, especially the amount of spin he produces (technology helps but that's only a small factor, otherwise everyone would hit with spin like that). And things like having control at full stretch and angling a forehand or backhand winner, that's talent.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

The obsession with "talent" in sport is bizarre. If you want to get down to it, it's simply genetics. That goes for physical and basic technical competence. Mental talent is different and certainly admirable. You're not born a choker.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

C'est une baguette, non? Tres bien.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

It is somewhat amusing when people claim certain players offset a lack of talent with fitness or hard work. We're talking about the best tennis players on the planet, do people really think any of them don't work hard?
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

It is somewhat amusing when people claim certain players offset a lack of talent with fitness or hard work. We're talking about the best tennis players on the planet, do people really think any of them don't work hard?
Some work harder than others, I think that much is obvious. All of them are good athletes but the ones who work hardest will generally have the best stamina.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Some work harder than others, I think that much is obvious. All of them are good athletes but the ones who work hardest will generally have the best stamina.
Sure but players without talent will never be successful in tennis no matter how hard they work.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Footwork and speed to me sort of go hand in hand.
But I guess we can say someone like Nadal and Ferrer have both amazing speed and footwork while someone like LeMonf has absolutely amazing speed but not that great when it comes to footwork.
One can be speedy and not have good footwork. Speed can offset bad footwork; in the same vein, good footwork can help an average player get to some balls he wouldn't have if he didn't have the right footwork.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Talent is the full package. And Nadal has more hot shots at every tournament he plays in than all the rest combined. Fact.
You cannot discard foot work for example because it is so important to the game of tennis,mental toughness, etc.
 

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Re: Video - What is talent: Rafa Fed Gasquet Robredo

Sure but players without talent will never be successful in tennis no matter how hard they work.
There are no tennis players with no talent.
 
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