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Tomic the Tank engine.
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I really think he is.

Murray is more consistent, but in terms of sheer talent and shotmaking, Wawrinka wins.
 

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I don't think thats fair on Murray. His list of achievements is still far greater and Wawrinka may have stitched together 2 great fortnights but his level of shotmaking as you put it has been far weaker than Andy's in between those 2 grandlsam victories. You can't judge a player based only on a shortlived peak performance. If Wawrinka now maintains this level, replaces Murray as a top 3/4 player for the next few years and starts winning more masters and big events then I'll change my mind.
 

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I really think he is.

Murray is more consistent, but in terms of sheer talent and shotmaking, Wawrinka wins.
so Wawrinka can hit ball harder then Murray, thus he is better then Murray? well, if you use that as reference, then he is better not only then Murray, but also better then Federer, Nadal and Novak.
 

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I don't see why Wawrinka of today has to measure up to yesterday Murray.
We are talkinga bout today. And currently, Wawrinka is playing tennis which is miles out from Murray's.
Also bear in mind Wawrinka has consistently subdued (ok drubbed is a better descriptive) Murray.
Their last encounter at the US Open was a lesson in tennis, and I am discounting monte carlo before that because it's a 3 sets max tourney so it's hard to gauge interest.

The last thing is that ultimately masters don't matter much bar for rankings and serena williams taught everyone that if you seek longevity avoid the masters like the pest.
Wawrinka did exceptionally badly in all the masters and yet conquered Roland Garros. If you can excel on the big stages, you will be remembered for it, as opposed to winning masters tourneys that ultimately won't count towards your hegemony, reign etc.
Wawrinka is poised to win more slams I believe. Does he have the belief? I hope he does.
Can murray beat wawrinka one day again once more? I highly doubt it but only time shall tell all!!!
 

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I don't think thats fair on Murray. His list of achievements is still far greater and Wawrinka may have stitched together 2 great fortnights but his level of shotmaking as you put it has been far weaker than Andy's in between those 2 grandlsam victories. You can't judge a player based only on a shortlived peak performance. If Wawrinka now maintains this level, replaces Murray as a top 3/4 player for the next few years and starts winning more masters and big events then I'll change my mind.
Serena williams taught the world of tennis that if you favour longevity, avoid the masters like the pest.
Masters do not count towards your legacy.
There's no need to put them on some piedestal. Only slams count and the reality is that wawrinka will likely win another slam.
Murray is very unlikely to ever beat wawrinka again bar injury. Time will tell.
Wawrinka's game is so far ahead's of Murray's is an insult to compare the two because wawrinka's level is way ahead!
 

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I really think he is.

Murray is more consistent, but in terms of sheer talent and shotmaking, Wawrinka wins.
You dont have to think it is.
It is a verifiable fact.
Andy Murray is fully incapable to compete with Wawrinka on a tennis court, and I am looking forward to their next encounter at a slam. I hope for a demolition but the tennis gods could always decide otherwise. But so far they have cast the dyes in wawrinka's favour and quite resoundingly for an apparently muted endorsement looking at the master's results.
 

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I don't see why Wawrinka of today has to measure up to yesterday Murray.
We are talkinga bout today. And currently, Wawrinka is playing tennis which is miles out from Murray's.
Also bear in mind Wawrinka has consistently subdued (ok drubbed is a better descriptive) Murray.
Their last encounter at the US Open was a lesson in tennis, and I am discounting monte carlo before that because it's a 3 sets max tourney so it's hard to gauge interest.

The last thing is that ultimately masters don't matter much bar for rankings and serena williams taught everyone that if you seek longevity avoid the masters like the pest.
Wawrinka did exceptionally badly in all the masters and yet conquered Roland Garros. If you can excel on the big stages, you will be remembered for it, as opposed to winning masters tourneys that ultimately won't count towards your hegemony, reign etc.
Wawrinka is poised to win more slams I believe. Does he have the belief? I hope he does.
Can murray beat wawrinka one day again once more? I highly doubt it but only time shall tell all!!!
By your unbiased logic Wawrinka is currently the best player of all time.
 

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What Stan (and Fed) shows that the origin of backhand, the purest and natural form is the onehanded one.
The beauty and elegance of this shot is for me the first thing what comes to my mind regarding this question.
You can`t learn this shot working natural, it comes with birth or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A82-O_u66h4
 

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Murray is more consistent, but in terms of sheer talent and shotmaking, Wawrinka wins.

Typical MTF logic.

Ballbasher > grinder

He can hit harder so he's more talented and a better player.
He can hit harder so it's on his racket.
He lost? He's a mug, mental midget. It was on his racket.

:spit:
 

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Sigh.

H2H Murray leads 8-6

Wawrinka won the last two, both however were in 2013 - when Murray had back problems, which for years had affected his clay play. He won Wimbledon that year, sure, but he had to have pain-killing injections to do it. Immediately after the USO defeat he had back surgery. . .

In all honesty you may be right that Wawrinka will beat Murray again, but there is no way of knowing until they meet again. Even then it depends on Stan being in one of his (relatively) rare "on" periods.
 
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