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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In 2021, which Djokovic equaling Federer's 20 Slams but surpassing his #1 weeks I came to realise something i've never bother to think before. Were we all fooled?

Maybe Federer was never actually the GOAT of tennis, but we've rushed into this belief along with the present Zeitgeist. I explain, the advent of social media on early of 2000s were catabolic in making "new GOATs", e.g.: Messi, Ronaldo, LeBron, Tiger, Hamilton, Brady, Tendulkar, Hakuho, Phelps, Bolt, Biles and so on. Not that they weren't, but the frenzy about each sport "experiencing a GOAT" was too much of a coincidence to be truth.

We looked at all the positives and erased the negatives, so that we could have our Greatest Of All Time. BUT that was not exactly truth, examples:
  • Federer never won The Grand Slam - Budge and Laver did (but also Wilding);
  • Federer never had the overall titles lead - Connors does (but also Laver, Rosewall, Tilden, Wilding, Pancho, Emerson);
  • Federer never had 6 years as #1 - Sampras did (but also Pancho, Tilden, Laver, W.Renshaw);
  • Federer did not had a superior number of weeks as #1 back in 2012 (only 285 up to Wimby12), BUT was already taunted the GOAT - Sampras had 286, one more than him;
  • Federer never had the most W/L ratio - Djokovic, Nadal, Borg do (but also Wilding, L.Doherty, W.Renshaw, Lacoste, Sears, Borotra);
  • Federer does not have now a positive H2H against his main (say 5) rivals - Djokovic, Borg, Sampras, Laver do (but also Kramer, Budge, Sears).
  • Federer never actually had the total Majors count, since Laver and Rosewall won respectively 19 and 23 if we include the real majors, the Pro-Slams - debatable, still true.

As soon as Federer surpassed Sampras on the Slams Count in Wimbledon 2009, we already rushed into our media accounts and online newspapers to check it out! But shortly after he was crowned (as short as the very next major), his decline had begun:
  • he lost the US Open 2009 to Delpo;
  • 2010 was the year of the unstoppable trampling Spanish Bull;
  • 2011 the Balkan Monster was awaken by all dark forces combined;

and before we knew it, the majestic artistry of the Alpine Lion GOATness was over...

Give me your thoughts, I implore.
 

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In my opinion, no one is the GOAT, not even Novak Djokovic. Of course, Federer was considered the GOAT by many, but he knew the truth:

I don't feel better than anyone, because we need past champions to pave the way for our generation and we have become very professional.

They have led the way and inspired myself and other players to chase the big records out there.

Back in the day they weren't doing that, they were just playing to play tennis. Things have changed dramatically with the press reminding us "you should do this and win that and you'll be considered the greatest of all time".

And anyway I don't think you can compare different eras in tennis.
 

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No one person has ALL the records, but Federer had a significant amount of the big ones and still has some to this day, so yes he certainly had a case to be the GOAT after he won his 15th slam, only Laver and Rosewall could have been the arguable GOATs at that point. Novak is just ahead of Roger now and will continue to extend that gap of course.
 

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There's no "GOAT", but even if there was, nobody would be able to reach that status if you have to hold all those records and achievements in your favor. It's impossible. But at least at one point, Federer was unquestionably the most successful tennis player ever. One might even argue he still is, even if his future looks far less promising than others'.
 

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People watched Federer and saw unparalleled greatness, week in, week out.

Greatness is not hard to recognise, nor to understand.

Greatness is bold and not cowardly. It's expressive and not dull. It's imaginative and not cramped. It's inspired and not mean. It's glorious and not calculating. It's thrilling and not repetitive. It's unique and not just a particularly good iteration of a cookie-cutter style.

People witness greatness in victory and defeat, and they know what it is. And they know exactly who thrilled them with greatness and who bored them with repetitive efficiency.

So people think Federer was the greatest.
 

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People watched Federer and saw unparalleled greatness, week in, week out.

Greatness is not hard to recognise, nor to understand.

Greatness is bold and not cowardly. It's expressive and not dull. It's imaginative and not cramped. It's inspired and not mean. It's glorious and not calculating. It's thrilling and not repetitive. It's unique and not just a particularly good iteration of a cookie-cutter style.

People witness greatness in victory and defeat, and they know what it is. And they know exactly who thrilled them with greatness and who bored them with repetitive efficiency.

So people think Federer was the greatest.
368459


@The Federest just won the thread.
 

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It‘s not a coincidence.

Every decade so far brought some GOAT contenders, in all of those sports.

The history of these sports isnt that old.
 

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People watched it in awe and saw unparalleled greatness, week in, week out.

Greatness is not hard to recognise, nor to understand.

Greatness is bold and not cowardly. It's expressive and not dull. It's imaginative and not cramped. It's inspired and not mean. It's glorious and not calculating. It's thrilling and not repetitive. It's unique and not just a particularly good iteration of a cookie-cutter style.

People witness greatness in victory and defeat, and they know what it is. And they know exactly who thrilled them with greatness and who bored them with repetitive efficiency.

Rollex.
Fixed it for them ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It‘s not a coincidence.

Every decade so far brought some GOAT contenders, in all of those sports.

The history of these sports isnt that old.
On the contrary though, I guess they are pretty old too. Lets see:

Sumo - official rankings system since ~1650
Cricket - 1840s
Golf - 1860s
Football/Soccer - 1860s
TENNIS - 1970s
Basketball - 1890s
Swimming - 1896
Gymanstics - 1896
Athletics - 1896
Football/American - 1920s
Formula - 20s 30s but mostly post WWII

I'm not the greatest connoisseur of these sports but I guess we didn't have a GOAT in 80s or 90s for most of them. ATGs of course, but hardly actual GOATs.

My doubt is, a coincidence led by actual sports enlargement (natural course) or an illusionary phenomena created by the spirit of our times...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
People watched Federer and saw unparalleled greatness, week in, week out.

Greatness is not hard to recognise, nor to understand.

Greatness is bold and not cowardly. It's expressive and not dull. It's imaginative and not cramped. It's inspired and not mean. It's glorious and not calculating. It's thrilling and not repetitive. It's unique and not just a particularly good iteration of a cookie-cutter style.

People witness greatness in victory and defeat, and they know what it is. And they know exactly who thrilled them with greatness and who bored them with repetitive efficiency.

So people think Federer was the greatest.
😢👏The unfathomable appearance of a true federist enthusiast on its full flamboyance display, I'm appalled... (My head is still nodding in utmost appreciation! Wonderful intake indeed.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In my opinion, no one is the GOAT, not even Novak Djokovic. Of course, Federer was considered the GOAT by many, but he knew the truth:
It strikes me that we all seem to forget the past. I see Pancho, Laver, Borg as titans of the sport. I do recognise the incredible achievements, physical prowess and stylistic beauty of the Big3, but still the greats of the past were fantastic.

Further back, the Era of Tilden and the 3 Mousquetaires and the previous Era of the Doherty brothers, Larned and Wilding, they were something the world had never seen up to that point in history...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
He was the undisputed goat of the open era, and he can be a co-goat again if he wins USO'21 or amasses one slam more than Djokovic once again and stays one slam behind Nadal.
Considering Federer's closing career, would this USO 21 be regarded as the ultimate GOAT tournament? I mean, whoever wins it will be the perpetual "common sense" GOAT?

Because never* again we will have a 20-20-20 Slam (Open Era / professional) contest between 3 GOAT candidates.
 

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On the contrary though, I guess they are pretty old too. Lets see:

Sumo - official rankings system since ~1650
Cricket - 1840s
Golf - 1860s
Football/Soccer - 1860s
TENNIS - 1970s
Basketball - 1890s
Swimming - 1896
Gymanstics - 1896
Athletics - 1896
Football/American - 1920s
Formula - 20s 30s but mostly post WWII

I'm not the greatest connoisseur of these sports but I guess we didn't have a GOAT in 80s or 90s for most of them. ATGs of course, but hardly actual GOATs.

My doubt is, a coincidence led by actual sports enlargement (natural course) or an illusionary phenomena created by the spirit of our times...
Lol.

When did professional leagues align with the modern structure we have in place now?

For basketball its 1950.

Its still pretty new.

Every decade we had a new GOAT.

First it was Wilt/Russell, then Kareem, then Bird/Magic, then MJ, 00‘s no one, then LeBron.
 
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