Mens Tennis Forums banner

121 - 140 of 141 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
782 Posts
By the way, the public RG ticket sale started this morning and it still seems to be no problem to buy tickets for every court on almost every day which wouldn't be the case normally - all that despite the greatly reduced capacity. I wouldn't buy a ticket either.
Could of gotten myself a SF/F tickets had I been there at those prices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Utter bullshit.

A pandemic is raging around the world. Just accept it and dont be so fucking ignorant.

Without the measures taken around the world, cases, hospitalisations and Covid deaths would have spiked. Furthermore, of course every other patient would have suffered more because the health system would be even more on the brink of collapse.

And of course the goddamn economy would also have suffered even more.

Its so completely and utterly embarrassing to deny this obvious facts.
How are things looking in Sweden?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
How are things looking in Sweden?
What about Sweden?

They weren't without measures (e.g. mass events banned; travel bans; social distancing, with restaurants e.g. forced to close if not abiding by the guidelines; telework (41.8%); etc.) . A high number of deaths (chasing Italy in deaths / 1M) and a blow to the economy like others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
What about Sweden?

They weren't without measures (e.g. mass events banned; travel bans; social distancing, with restaurants e.g. forced to close if not abiding by the guidelines; telework (41.8%); etc.) . A high number of deaths (chasing Italy in deaths / 1M) and a blow to the economy like others.
They certainly had some measures but far milder than in most countries. Correct me if I'm wrong but were not schools, bars and restaurants open throughout? Is it not true that there were no restrictions on how often you could leave your home or on having other people over to your home? As far as I know, mask wearing is not mandatory anywhere in Sweden. That is a world away from the situation in the UK.

Yes, Sweden has had more deaths than Norway, Finland or Denmark but less than Spain, Italy or the UK. However, is it not the case that hospitals were never in any real danger of being overwhelmed (which was the original justification for lockdowns in many countries)? By the end of the year, all-cause mortality in Sweden will likely look very similar to any other year and you'd struggle to see which year was the pandemic if you didn't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
Nobody in Scandinavia has mandatory masks, simply because there's much more evidence that they have no effect at all than that they have a positive effect. I'd still say it makes sense to some degree to recommend them in high-transmission-settings like the subway for instance, where it's at least possible that they offer some sort of benefits, since they are for sure a physical barrier in case someone sneezes or coughs, but acting like a cloth mask is the most necessary thing ever and shame everybody who isn't wearing this shit is ridiculous. After all for the virus a cloth mask is what a chain link fence is for a mosquito.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chicot

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
They certainly had some measures but far milder than in most countries. Correct me if I'm wrong but were not schools, bars and restaurants open throughout?
For the most part yes, that's why I didn't include them in my post. Bars and restaurants were required to follow specific guidelines against a threat of closure Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Is it not true that there were no restrictions on how often you could leave your home or on having other people over to your home? As far as I know, mask wearing is not mandatory anywhere in Sweden. That is a world away from the situation in the UK.
But not too different than e.g. Finland. Bars and restaurants were restricted to take-away service and schools were closed for some time. Many public facilities like swimming pools, museums, libraries etc. also closed, and public gatherings limited to 10 people. Most businesses remained open (up to the owners; my local tennis club e.g. remained open with some limitations (max 5 persons per court; showers/sauna not in use); personally didn't play tennis (well, once), but instead padel during the pandemic; had a haircut end of April). No mandatory masks. People were advised to stay home as much as possible (but not forgo exercising outdoors). Teleworking was adopted by 59% of employees (41.8% in Sweden; 37% in EU).

Yes, Sweden has had more deaths than Norway, Finland or Denmark but less than Spain, Italy or the UK. However, is it not the case that hospitals were never in any real danger of being overwhelmed (which was the original justification for lockdowns in many countries)?
Adjusted by size of the population, Sweden is however closing in on Italy (deaths / 1 million people). 4-5 times the number of deaths in absolute terms than other Nordic countries combined. Now the situation seems quite stable however. As to hospital capacities, there was an internal report end of March that ICU spots in the Stockholm Region were thought to go over the limit in a week (Interna dokumenten visar: Sjukhusen väntas vara fulla om en vecka daily deaths peaked during the first two weeks of April), but I don't have any actual numbers.

By the end of the year, all-cause mortality in Sweden will likely look very similar to any other year and you'd struggle to see which year was the pandemic if you didn't know.
Let's see. For now / in a short time span, Covid has caused a sizeable peak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
They certainly had some measures but far milder than in most countries. Correct me if I'm wrong but were not schools, bars and restaurants open throughout? Is it not true that there were no restrictions on how often you could leave your home or on having other people over to your home? As far as I know, mask wearing is not mandatory anywhere in Sweden. That is a world away from the situation in the UK.

Yes, Sweden has had more deaths than Norway, Finland or Denmark but less than Spain, Italy or the UK. However, is it not the case that hospitals were never in any real danger of being overwhelmed (which was the original justification for lockdowns in many countries)? By the end of the year, all-cause mortality in Sweden will likely look very similar to any other year and you'd struggle to see which year was the pandemic if you didn't know.
The total death count is probably also a bit misleading. Swedens counting is very loose, everyone who was tested positive and died within 30 days is counted as a COVID death, even when run over by a bus or something (unlike your counting in Britain where apparently you never recover, lol).
Norway IIRC doesn't count deaths outside of hospitals on the other hand which is significantly lowering the death toll, because most deaths didn't occur in hospitals (Sweden is currently at 5,600 total deaths with overall just 2,500 ICU admissions).

But anyway, while Swedens excess mortality during April - June is surely much higher than Norways for instance, it isn't something particularly extreme either, more or less like a severe flu wave. Just not spred over the October - March period, but from April - June. Extremely far away from the predicted collapse of the healthcare system (not even close) and around 20 times less deaths than predicted. Taking about those things is outdated and not supported by evidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
The total death count is probably also a bit misleading. Swedens counting is very loose, everyone who was tested positive and died within 30 days is counted as a COVID death, even when run over by a bus or something (unlike your counting in Britain where apparently you never recover, lol).
Norway IIRC doesn't count deaths outside of hospitals on the other hand which is significantly lowering the death toll, because most deaths didn't occur in hospitals (Sweden is currently at 5,600 total deaths with overall just 2,500 ICU admissions).
No, for a big part it comes down to the ability (Norway) / inability (Sweden) to protect the elderly at nursing homes. Number and skills of staff, type of protocols, and early timing of measures. Where did a significant part of the deaths in Sweden occur (outside of hospitals)? Rhetorical question.

Norway (Inga coronasmittade på äldreboenden i Tromsö – norsk metod gav noll fall: ”Ni var för sent ute”)

Fyra gånger fler sjuksköterskor. Egen smittskyddsläkare i kommunen. Provtagning av varje misstänkt coronasmittad åldring.

Resultat: Inte en enda covid-19-smittad på äldreboendena i Tromsö.

– I Norge är det en självklarhet att äldreboendena har gott om sjuksköterskor som leder arbetet, säger chefen för Tromsös äldreboenden, svenska sjuksköterskan Leena Vuorinen.
[...]

Det är stor skillnad mellan smittskyddet i Sverige, med totalt 60 smittskyddsläkare, och Norge, med en smittskyddsläkare i var och en av de 350 kommunerna.

Svenska Leena Vuorinen, ansvarig för alla fem äldreboenden med 371 platser i Tromsö kommun, beskriver smittskyddsarbetet som drog i gång i slutet av februari, när smittan ökade i Italien.
[...]

Redan när rapporterna kom från Italien såg smittskyddsläkaren, kommunöverläkaren och hälsoledningsgruppen till att vi fick en pandemiplan. När Norge stängdes ner den 12 mars intensifierades jobbet.

– Vi jobbade nästan dygnet runt första veckan. Vi uppdaterade planer och rutiner kring hur smittade skulle isoleras, utbildade personal i smittförebyggande arbete. Med trygg personal kommer man långt, säger Vuorinen.
Redan den 13 mars infördes besöksförbud på Tromsös äldreboenden. Till dags dato har kommunen totalt haft fyra döda och 178 smittade, men inte en enda smittad på något äldreboende. Ett avgörande skäl är de många sjuksköterskorna på norska äldreboenden, enligt Leena Vuorinen.

– Många har dött på äldreboenden och i hemtjänsten i Sverige för att fast och kompetent personal saknas. I Norge leds äldreboendena av sjuksköterskor, vi har sjuksköterskor på varje skift. Här är var femte anställd sjuksköterska, i Sverige kan det vara så få som en av 20. Det gör stor skillnad, sjuksköterskor har en högre medicinsk kompetens, säger hon.
Google translate works well

But anyway, while Swedens excess mortality during April - June is surely much higher than Norways for instance, it isn't something particularly extreme either, more or less like a severe flu wave. Just not spred over the October - March period, but from April - June. Extremely far away from the predicted collapse of the healthcare system (not even close) and around 20 times less deaths than predicted. Taking about those things is outdated and not supported by evidence.
It's still high for such a span (3 months; a significant peak for a short time), but remains to be seen what the number will be for a 12 month span.


edit. But we're even still talking about an over 20x difference in the number of deaths between Sweden and Norway. To level the tally, outbreaks within the nursing homes would need to be worse than the ones that took place in Sweden.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
Norway IIRC doesn't count deaths outside of hospitals on the other hand which is significantly lowering the death toll, because most deaths didn't occur in hospitals (Sweden is currently at 5,600 total deaths with overall just 2,500 ICU admissions).
That ist not correct. Of the 253 deaths in norway only 97 occur in hospitals. So similar numbers as in sweden.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
The total death count is probably also a bit misleading. Swedens counting is very loose, everyone who was tested positive and died within 30 days is counted as a COVID death, even when run over by a bus or something (unlike your counting in Britain where apparently you never recover, lol).
Norway IIRC doesn't count deaths outside of hospitals on the other hand which is significantly lowering the death toll, because most deaths didn't occur in hospitals (Sweden is currently at 5,600 total deaths with overall just 2,500 ICU admissions).

But anyway, while Swedens excess mortality during April - June is surely much higher than Norways for instance, it isn't something particularly extreme either, more or less like a severe flu wave. Just not spred over the October - March period, but from April - June. Extremely far away from the predicted collapse of the healthcare system (not even close) and around 20 times less deaths than predicted. Taking about those things is outdated and not supported by evidence.
Hah! I was just reading about that. Under the current system, Boris Johnson will eventually be recorded as a Covid death.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
People still with Sweden as if their culture , demeanor , demographics , population could be compared to that in New York or Paris
Lol, I was thinking the same. I would like the NZ prime minister to try to control COVID-19 but with Chileans instead of Kiwis. Lol, it can't be done
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,109 Posts
Lol, I was thinking the same. I would like the NZ prime minister to try to control COVID-19 but with Chileans instead of Kiwis. Lol, it can't be done
May be it can , I would absolutly trade our president for that gorgeus lovable woman in charge there to come rule here , may be it all goes away , we change our behaviour hipnotized by her . I'd follow her in whatever she says and do .:cool:
 

·
|
Joined
·
14,620 Posts
May be it can , I would absolutly trade our president for that gorgeus lovable woman in charge there to come rule here , may be it all goes away , we change our behaviour hipnotized by her . I'd follow her in whatever she says and do .:cool:
Gorgeous? Wow, talk about low standards....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
No, for a big part it comes down to the ability (Norway) / inability (Sweden) to protect the elderly at nursing homes. Number and skills of staff, and early timing of measures. Where did a significant part of the deaths in Sweden occur (outside of hospitals)? Rhetorical question.
Yes, 100 % agree here (50 % care home, 26 % domestic care, average age 86).

Overall, the death count seems to be rather independant from the implemented measures and more dependant on what you've mentioned above or probably other factors (like seasonality). Belgium for instance had very strict measures from the beginning and has now the highest number of deaths/million worldwide (excluding the big-brained north-eastern US states).
There are several other examples where this applies, unless you lock everybody up for months/years which is absolutely unsustainable and eventually just delaying the inevitable, there's probably hardly anything you can do except for increasing the collateral damage of your measures.

It's still high for such a span (3 months; a significant peak for a short time), but remains to be seen what the number will be in a 12 month span.
One can already use the October - June periods (those include both, potential flu as well as the COVID "season" this year) for comparision. I actually ordered them (beginning from "season" 09/10) and deleted the labelling to avoid viewer bias. :devil:

The only one of these periods that absolutely sticks out, is the October 18 - June 19 period, because the all-cause mortality there is way down. The period that includes COVID is indistinguishable from the other years.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
121 - 140 of 141 Posts
Top