[cane_cattivo]

Before a possible Gonzomania if he does well in Shangai, I ask: how do you rank current players ON THEIR CAREER MERITS SO FAR (not potential or raw talent) in the list of the best Latinamerican players in the open era?

First three are easy for me, including a very clear order, and no current player is (so far) even close:

1. Vilas
2. Kuerten
3. Gomez

After that is more difficult, and I think the remaining seven in a top ten list would include some ordering of three retired and four active players:

Raul Ramirez
Jose-Luis Clerc
Marcelo Rios
Nalbandian
Gaudio
Coria
Gonzalez

Clerc and Ramirez are the ones with more tournaments won and more years in top ten (but Nalbo should be close with 5 years as top ten), Rios was briefly #1, Gaudio is the only GS winner but Nalbo has a final and several SF and 1 end-of year tournament and Gonzo, Rios and Coria a final. Coria and Rios were very dominant during a short time. Clerc and Nalbandian great have DC tradition, Gonzo a broze medal. Ramirez was an outstanding doubles player but not sure how to count that.
Of course I know the four active can achieve a lot from now on, but anyway:

What should be the order?
Am I forgetting someone?

My very tentative list:

4. Clerc
5. Ramirez
6. Nalbo
7. Rios
8. Coria and Gato tied (so they don't fight or get depressed)
10. Gonzo

 

[Kingofchaos86]

I think rios should be above Nalbandian because:
1. he was number 1
2. more titles
3. 5 MS

other than that, the list looks right.

 

[OldSilentHill]

I think rios should be above Nalbandian because:
1. he was number 1
2. more titles
3. 5 MS

other than that, the list looks right.

Hurt saying, you are right.

This is not about an statement like "the best Nalbandian would have an easy win if he ever play with Ríos". That´s not the point. The point is that Ríos is more relevant so far because of his titles and #1 Ranking.

The list is good, but for me, Coria was more dominant and more significant than Gaudio (in the ranking and in the tennis level), despiting the Roland Garros title that Gaudio won.

 

[NicoFan]

I think that the list looks like right too, but I agree that Rios and Nalby should definitely be switched.

 

[Hendu]

Tough to say...

just to add some facts about Latin American players that made the top ten:

Name – best ranking (year) – singles titles

Argentina

Vilas, Guillermo #2 (1975) - 62
Coria, Guillermo #3 (2004) - 9
Nalbandian, David #3 (2006) - 7
Clerc, Jose Luis #4 (1981) - 25
Gaudio, Gastón #5 (2005) - 8
Cañas, Guillermo #8 (2005) - 7
Mancini, Alberto #8 (1989) - 3
Puerta, Mariano #9 (2005) - 3
Jaite, Martín #10 (1990) - 12

Brasil

Kuerten, Gustavo #1 (2000) - 20

Chile

Rios, Marcelo #1 (1998) - 18
Gonzalez, Fernando #5 (2007) - 8
Massu, Nicolás #9 (2004) - 6

Ecuador

Gomez, Andrés #4 (1990) - 21
Lapentti, Nicolás #6 (1999) - 5

México

Ramirez, Raúl #4 (1976) - 19

Paraguay

Pecci, Victor #9 (1980) – 10

 

[NicoFan]

Thanks.

I forgot about Jaite.

As for Coria and GG - they are close - hard to say who should go ahead of who in that case. GG got the GS - a tremendous feat. So I would give him the edge.

 

[Hendu]

Thanks.

I forgot about Jaite.

The best of his 12 titles was Barcelona, but he also got to the finals of Rome and Monte Carlo.

Mancini on the other hand, only won 3 titles, but Rome and Monte Carlo were among them (both in 1989).

 

[Action Jackson]

Covered most players on the list and thanks Hendu for adding more information to it as well.

The top 3 is fine with me, the others I am not sure about yet.

 

[Hendu]

The performances in GS of all the Latin American players that made the Top Ten:


Guillermo Cañas

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 3

Jose Luis Clerc

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis 2
• GS Quarters -

Guillermo Coria

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis 1
• GS Quarters 2

Gaston Gaudio

• GS Wins 1
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters -

Andrés Gomez

• GS Wins 1
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 5

Fernando Gonzalez

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 3

Martín Jaite

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 1

Gustavo Kuerten

• GS Wins 3
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 5

Nicolás Lapentti

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis 1
• GS Quarters 1

Alberto Mancini

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 1

Nicolás Massu

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters -

David Nalbandian

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis 4
• GS Quarters 5

Victor Pecci

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis 1
• GS Quarters -

Mariano Puerta

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters -

Raul Ramirez

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals -
• GS semis 3
• GS Quarters 6

Marcelo Rios

• GS Wins -
• GS Finals 1
• GS semis -
• GS Quarters 5

Guillermo Vilas

• GS Wins 4
• GS Finals 4
• GS semis 4
• GS Quarters 7

 

[krakenzero]

why is Gomez so ahead of Gaudio? In my opinion Vilas, Kuerten, Rios in one group, and then Gomez, Gaudio and Nalbandian in the next one. Fit Dave can ascend...

 

[NicoFan]

Because Gomez was more consistent than GG.

And Rios isn't top three because he couldn't win the big one.

This is about actual results...not potential. If it went by potential, I could see Rios in the top three, but not in actual results.

 

[lorenz]

Great Post !!
Very difficult to rank those kind of players. Everybody are or was excellent.

 

[cane_cattivo]

Thanks for the stats, Hendu, and thanks for all the suggestions. I've revised a few things but it's still work in progress.
I think there is no doubt Gomez is #3; too many titles and years at top level in addition to the RG title. I'm now thinking Ramirez-Clerc is a toss-up, clerc's GS record is slim but he has more titles and more time as top 10. Still, they both have a slight edge on Rios and Nalbo. You have convinced me that Rios should be very slightly above Nalbo for now, mostly on his 1998 dominance and the number of titles (but compare their GS performance and Nalbo's is way better). I now think Coria should be on top of Gaudio slightly: Gatos' RG title vs. Coria's better rankings and quality of titles (except for RG) are a wash, but there is a difference in Coria's favor in overall GS performance, including non-clay events. With Gonzo losing today, he stays at #10. So here is the second iteration:

1. Vilas
2. Kuerten
3. Gomez
4. Clerc & Ramirez tied
6. Rios
7. Nalbo
8. Coria
9. Gato
10. Gonzo

Huge distance between Vilas and Kuerten, important distance between Kuerten and Gomez, small distance between Gomez, Clerc/Ramirez, Rios and Nalbo, moderate distance between Nalbo and Coria, and then small distance between Coria, Gato and Gonzo. Noone else so far would be too close to Gonzo. From Hendu's research and my memory, I would say that Cañas, Pecci, Jaite and perhaps Massu, in that order, would follow.

 

[ChinoRios4Ever]

Rios was No.1

so Rios >>>>> Clerc, Ramirez and Gomez

winning a single GS is not more important that being No.1, in that case Gaudio >>> Rios too?

for me 1. Vilas, 2. Guga, 3. Chino, 4. Nalby

my humble opinion...

 

[krakenzero]

And being N°1 is not a result I supose :S :S...

What did Gomez win above of Roland Garros? In how many years?

IMHO First Line: Kuerten, Vilas, Ríos

Second Line: Nalbandian, Gómez, Gaudio, Ramírez

Third Line: Coria, Clerc

Forth Line: Massu, Cañas, Gonzalez... the rest of them xD

 

[Hendu]

why is Gomez so ahead of Gaudio?

Gomez won many more titles (Rome twice), and was a top ten for a longer time.

 

[Johnny Groove]

Fat Dave has only 7 titles?

 

[Hendu]

Just a statistical comparison of the 4 best Latin American players of the last decade:

 

[cane_cattivo]

Since the last update, Nalbo and Gonzo have done a few things (not as much as one would have expected) and Del Potro has emerged. This is my current list, by achievements, not potential:

1. Vilas
2. Kuerten
3. Gomez
4. Clerc & Ramirez tied
6. Nalbo
7. Rios & Del Potro
8. Coria
10. Gonzo & Gato

Note that Del Potro is of course likely to go up in the next few years while Nalbo and Gonzo are not. But Nalbo could with a Davis Cup title or an improbable GS title. It would be great if Hendu can update the records!

 

[norwood_10]

Rios, Kuerten and Nalbandian are three of the all-time most talented players never mind Latin American.

Gaudio and Gonzalez not far behind.