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Wawrinka by and large figured Djokovic out, still didn't beat the grinding beast of Serbia on some occasions where he was getting help from the umpires.
 

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Number of h2h Federer-Djokovic per season.
Everyone can develop around this. :)

2006: 2
2007: 4
2008: 3
2009: 5
2010: 5
2011: 5
2012: 5
2013: 2
2014: 5
2015: 8...
2016: 1
2017: 0...
2018: 2
2019: 2
2020: 1
2021: 0

For various reasons linked to the respective situation of the 2 players, they met less in 6 2016-2021 seasons (6 matches) than in the 2015 season alone (8 matches) ...
5 meetings is also the most frequent occurrence: 2009-2010-2011-2012-2014
 

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I think what Toni was trying to say is that it's hard to figure out how to hit winners past Joe or break his game down like for example how you can break down Fed's BH wing. Toni is essentially voicing Nadal's grievances about being unable to break down Joe's game the way he's able to Federer‘s.

When Joe gets into his wall and clutch mode mainly from Set 2 onwards, unless you ace him you don't really know how to win the point. This is more a reflection of the state of the field rather than the difficulty of executing because plenty of players could put it past Joe in that 2012-2014 period even after his peak in 2011. It's only from 2015 that player's got this vibe.
 

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Mate you don't have a point that much is clear. Saying Novak was not a threat to Fed until 2009 is not only ridiculous but inaccurate. He beat Fed in 2007 Montreal Masters finals and challenge him in 2007 USO F and beat him 2008 AO.SF. so you're very much wrong. That was all within less than year of him being a top 3 player. So it's clear as day Novak was always a threat.

Before 2009 the rivalry had barely started, it was maybe a year and half old, So you saying "until 2009 " as if there is anything to really go off before that The bottom line is. Fed has failed time and time again when it comes to big matches against Novak. You cherry picking that small time period makes no sense when they played another 12 years and fed got beat constantly

Right, Fed declined conveniently started at ripe age 27-28 when Nadal and Novak started Rising. What a coincidence
You are clearly not understanding my point.

First, I don´t mean "threat" in the sense of being able to beat him, I mean "threat" in terms of being able to take Federer´s lead for a long time and overshadow Federer´s legacy in any way as he eventually did, and they had played 14 matches until 2009, that´s about as much as many long rivalries of these players to some of gen useless.


By the time Djokovic started his prime in 2011, Federer had already passed Sampras in the slam race he had just won "the slam" in RG and had lots of records and weeks #1, Federer was older and in physical/motivation decline, this is NOT convenient these are FACTS that have nothing to do with Djokovic or Nadal because they were simply not relevant or relevant enough when Federer got all his records. Would Federer really care and be motivated to beat a player that had just won 4 slams in 2011?

That´s my point: while Federer was the almost undisputed GOAT throughout most of Federer and Djokovic´s long rivalry and might have felt he had nothing else to prove to anybody, Djokovic´s prime started when Federer had already achieved almost everything, including Djokovic nowadays, would dream to achieve and that was a big factor boosting Djokovic´s confidence and helping him stay motivated.
 
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