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ATP#700 is ATP ranked

Ok sounds like we had similar experiences

Would you have quit tennis if you can make $20k/year top 1000? $50k/year top 500?
For sure! My idea was to earn enough without having to worry about money for at least 10-15 years after the career was over. Then I realized that the leap it takes to go from no man's land (anything upwards of 200 basically) to ATP level was not worth the risk. Anything below 50k annual savings was no option. I closely followed some careers of players my age such as Rainer Etzinger who ultimated peaked in the 150s and the infamous Daniel Köllerer (rank 55 peak) who coincidentally played mixed doubles with my now wife before we met. The first earning around 200k in his career and using it all for the tour life, the later ending up just shy of a million which he can live off as far as I have heard.
Long story short: The first path was something I might have been capable of, Köllerers likely not (in terms of talent).

Personal background story, don't read if you are not interested, I warned you^^
By the time I had to study for my final year in high school, I had my first real girlfriend and started to play hockey 3 times a week as well.
That ultimated led to dropping tennis and I didn't touch a racket in 5 years. 16 years later I am fat and play 3 times tennis a year, barely beating my 70y old father (who to this date plays 3-4 times a week and was really really good back in his youth). Funnily enough when I get asked by co-workers to play tennis I usually do it to see their faces in utter disbelieve how a super fit 25 year old 4.2 ITN player gets absolutely humiliated by a father of two in horrible shape in his mid-late 30s.
 

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Already liked Thiem and I respect him even more for his honesty. He's right, a lot of players like to think they're professional, but they're not. They are simply able to travel and hit a couple of balls and onto the next regional ITF event it is! They don't need any funding whatsoever. They need a different mindset and/or a mirror telling them they're not top level material.
Also respect Thiem but there are no coherent arguments on his side. Players that are currently experiencing financial problems are having them because there are no competitions and prize money to be won, due to corona pandemic and it hurts lower ranked players harder because most of them have not accumulated enough money. Some of them may be young tennis players that are working hard and are about to breakthrough. Others may be less talented, maybe not as dedicated, but are still part of the tennis ecosystem, and without them there are less tournaments and matches for those younger tennis players to play and acquire experience.

When it comes to his other argument about other causes more worthy of giving money, it's not a zero sum game, especialy considering that the money mentioned is a measly sum and doesn't stop him from giving to other causes.
 

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Also respect Thiem but there are no coherent arguments on his side. Players that are currently experiencing financial problems are having them because there are no competitions and prize money to be won, due to corona pandemic and it hurts lower ranked players harder because most of them have not accumulated enough money. Some of them may be young tennis players that are working hard and are about to breakthrough. Others may be less talented, maybe not as dedicated, but are still part of the tennis ecosystem, and without them there are less tournaments and matches for those younger tennis players to play and acquire experience.

When it comes to his other argument about other causes more worthy of giving money, it's not a zero sum game, especialy considering that the money mentioned is a measly sum and doesn't stop him from giving to other causes.
Thiem is all for helping the lower ranked players who are struggling financially. What Thiem is against is lumping every lower ranked player together as if everyone is in the same financial situation and as if everyone treats tennis as it is a real job. He does not want to help everyone, just those that need the help.

Where is the proof that every lower ranked player is struggling financially, by the way? What if many of them come from a rich and privileged background, have wealthy parents, and are not strapped for money? What if some of them make a lot of money off court? Why should these players receive help when they clearly do not need it? Don't you think that Thiem has every right to know where his money is going and to whom it is going to? If he found out that some of his donations is going to a millionaire or someone who is living comfortably, he would probably feel stupid for giving and would feel that money could have went to someone more in need of help.
 

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Thiem is all for helping the lower ranked players who are struggling financially. What Thiem is against is lumping every lower ranked player together as if everyone is in the same financial situation and as if everyone treats tennis as it is a real job. He does not want to help everyone, just those that need the help.

Where is the proof that every lower ranked player is struggling financially, by the way? What if many of them come from a rich and privileged background, have wealthy parents, and are not strapped for money? What if some of them make a lot of money off court? Why should these players receive help when they clearly do not need it? Don't you think that Thiem has every right to know where his money is going and to whom it is going to? If he found out that some of his donations is going to a millionaire or someone who is living comfortably, he would probably feel stupid for giving and would feel that money could have went to someone more in need of help.
And who is Dominic Thiem to decide who is worthy and who isn't? Why Thiem? Why not Djokovic? Or Federer? Or Kecmanovic? Or Soeda?

Anyway, the idea in principle is good. Denying the 98 out of 100 who need it because two "unworthy" ones might slip by is stupid.
 

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And who is Dominic Thiem to decide who is worthy and who isn't? Why Thiem? Why not Djokovic? Or Federer? Or Kecmanovic? Or Soeda?

Anyway, the idea in principle is good. Denying the 98 out of 100 who need it because two "unworthy" ones might slip by is stupid.
Because it's his money. He has every right to decide how he wants to donate his money and which players he wants to help. If he doesn't want to help those who only play tennis as a hobby or those who are not struggling financially, that is his right and he has the right to voice it.

I don't think that 98 out of 100 lower ranked players are struggling financially. In fact, I would guess that a good portion of them made it to where they are because they had a good support system around them and came from privileged backgrounds that enabled them to play tennis in the first place. Do you know how many children never even get the chance to play tennis because their parents did not have the money to support them? Many of the lower ranked players are already living their dream because of where they came from. Many of these lower ranked players also have to have some safety net (meaning they likely have other forms of income besides what they make on a tennis court).

Thiem 100% wants to support the financially struggling lower ranked players...he just does not want to help people who are not in that precarious situation.
 

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Everyone, including Thiem, has the right to determine who is 'worthy' of receiving one's donation. His money, he decides who's worthy. It's common sense, isn't it?
Well, fine then he should just opt out of donating. It's not going to be enforced. He can do that without smearing many good, hard-working players.

It's irrelevant because the bulk of the relief fund (around $6 million) is coming from ATP, WTA, ITF and the slams. The small top-up from donations by top-100 players was just a little icing.

 

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I don't know where this welfare mentality came from. From this nonsense by Noah Rubin not being able to win a match and asking for free money for useless players like him, to lower-ranked players generally asking for free money because they can't survive a three-month break due to having made $467 of career prize money for years. You watch guys like Thiem then you watch guys in the top 300 and Thiem is right. He plays a lot, works hard, gives his best every match. Then you watch some challenger players who don't gave their best effort every week and pick and choose the tournaments they try at (you can listen to the Rubin podcast and how much he talks about players tanking)... but poor Challenger players, but guys who suck. If you suck, you don't win. If you win, you don't make money. You don't deserve money. It works like this everywhere around the world. Even Kevin Krawietz went to work to have something to do, and the guy is a Slam champion. You either have the winning mentality in you or you don't. Most of these guys are massive chokers not giving 100%, and don't care. Take most of the year off traveling to luxury destinations and hope for a few good weeks in a whole year, then complain about free money? How about working hard each week and not tanking. Thiem is absolutely right and he's a guy to be trusted seeing as how he's the exact opposite of many of these tour players. Let's be honest, the war of attrition in 100-300 ranks usually isn't won, and if you watch a lot of these tournaments lopsided matches and "oh well, it's not my day, let's tank and get back next week" is the majority of all matches. A lot of these guys don't even seem like they enjoy the game (like the nice posts by the Austrian guy in this thread), they're like a guy stuck at an office job all their lives cause they don't know what else to do and don't want to take any risks. Same for tennis players. They should learn how to code or something if they're that bad. Maybe they'll have a better chance at being top 200 in that. They can qualify for coronavirus stimulus payments at least.
 

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And who is Dominic Thiem to decide who is worthy and who isn't? Why Thiem? Why not Djokovic? Or Federer? Or Kecmanovic? Or Soeda?

Anyway, the idea in principle is good. Denying the 98 out of 100 who need it because two "unworthy" ones might slip by is stupid.
he did not say that. he never said who or who he doesn't want to support. he just wants to have the freedom to spend his money the way he wants, as in other humanitarian projects or young tennis support programs. don't second quote stuff on the internet that was never said by a player.
 

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And who is Dominic Thiem to decide who is worthy and who isn't? Why Thiem? Why not Djokovic? Or Federer? Or Kecmanovic? Or Soeda?

Anyway, the idea in principle is good. Denying the 98 out of 100 who need it because two "unworthy" ones might slip by is stupid.
Don't be ridiculous.
It's his money so he's the best and the only person who is entitled to decide where and to whom his money goes to.
 

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whether you agree with Dominic or not, it is ridiculous top players are expected to help lower ranked players and solve their problem once and for all. it is mental. Am I missing that Real Madrid are helping Besiktas (my local fave) for the sake of ‘sport’. (since we are also in a mild financial crises because of covid-19)

We as fans ought to ask these relief funds from big organisations, like ATP, UEFA and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
Thiem doesn’t need to donate shit but the ATP should obviously make an effort to compensate the lower ranked players in these tough times because of COVID-19. Which is what they are doing with this fund, top players are just encouraged to donate because they have a very comfortable life, if Thiem doesn’t want to, that’s fine but to act as if many of them are unprofessional and his lack of sympathy to those players who are really struggling without tennis, is surprising.
 

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Thiem doesn’t need to donate shit but the ATP should obviously make an effort to compensate the lower ranked players in these tough times because of COVID-19. Which is what they are doing with this fund, top players are just encouraged to donate because they have a very comfortable life, if Thiem doesn’t want to, that’s fine but to act as if many of them are unprofessional and his lack of sympathy to those players who are really struggling without tennis, is surprising.
I admire Fedalovic's good intentions, but it's clear, once again, the big tennis associations are sitting back and watch the top guys handling things. These associations have become richer than rich because of these top players. Now it's time for them to give something back in return for once. Tennis is a very rich sport, but even the top men/women players don't see enough of this in return. It's time for ATP/WTA/ITF to unite when helping lower ranked players. They can cooperate with national associations asking them who really needs financial support.
 

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IMO
Well, fine then he should just opt out of donating. It's not going to be enforced. He can do that without smearing many good, hard-working players.

It's irrelevant because the bulk of the relief fund (around $6 million) is coming from ATP, WTA, ITF and the slams. The small top-up from donations by top-100 players was just a little icing.
But I think we could read the lines that he's probably saying not all who are lower ranked are hard workers, and may like to help those who he really has proven that they are in for the long haul and are currently struggling. It's like forcing a family member to help someone they know had their own issues, that maybe there may be other ways to help them than giving money. As many has said, this emergency situation is up to the higher ups (ATP, WTA, ITF) should be the ones providing security for these players. Raising prize money and such for the future in the lower ranks. But of course it should be balanced that those lower ranked players are truly aiming to the top and not IMO just content to be "amateur professionals".

To tell the truth $6 from the higher ups seem very small with how big the prize money in Slams are. I think something like $12 million can provide 5000 players $2400 each.

Overall I agree that Domi can choose whoever he wants to help seeing he's an "employee" rather than the "employer".
 

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It's funny thing how people for years were blaming the top guys for not caring about small tournaments and low-ranked players, and when they are finally trying to do something tangible, it's "fuck those lower players". :p

Is the tour even viable if only top 50-80 most talented play? Even the GOATs had to play futures and challengers at some point in their careers.
 

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@Time Violation Wait, isn't issue is that the ATP are the ones not developing Challengers enough, while high ranked players playing in small tournaments considered as "vulturing", hehe.
Well, depends which fan you are, if you favorite player is playing, then he's supporting the tournament, if your hated player is playing then he's vulturing of course.
 

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Not a smart move by thiem. It makes him look insensitive and a bit arrogant. I don't think he is either of those things but it was a stupid thing to say. Sometimes it's better just to go along with it, especially when it is a call to charity.

The bigger issue is making sure young players can get a chance to play ranking tournaments and earn some money on the tour until they see whether they can make it or not. If you're 25 and you haven't made it then it's highly unlikely you ever will and its best to focus on the next generation. Perhaps funding young players outside the top hundred would make more sense so they are giving money to people who may be the future of the tour. No need to support older players who are just playing for fun or because they've got nothing else to do.
 

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World is full of people who struggle to make their ends meet. In all professions. I fail to understand why tennis should be any different so those more successful should hand out money to less so. If you aren't successful enough in your job take another one.
 

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Well, these are Thiem's money and his decision after all. Nobody should force him to donate. But oh boy, he made a big mistake tennis-wise: now lower ranked players will be super motivated against him, it makes zero sense to give your rivals an extra motivation.
 
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