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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen people insinuate that Djokovic would be considered a better player if he had an 8-3 or 8-4 record in GS finals as opposed to 8-8...when you think about it that sounds ridiculous. Basically it's saying Djokovic would be considered a better player if he had lost in the earlier rounds than in the finals...which sounds pretty silly. His GS finals record is only an issue when you compare it to 17-8 or 14-6 or 14-4 or something like that but in isolation you'd much rather have that than 8-3(meaning 5 fewer GS finals)...thoughts?
 

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I do get your point. Reaching more finals is of course a better achievement and you show to be an incredibly consistent player overall.

However, this sport is about results and winning (such as any sport), and winning 50% of your finals is not a stat that is No. 1 worthy IMO, it looks like a stat that shows he is mentally fragile.
 

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BIGGEST match of the tournament is the final.
LASTMAN standing is remembered the most.

Wins upto the SF stage are the battles that set up the final frontier .

So, reaching the final shows you are good but failing there shows , you are not good enough.
 

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I don't think it really cares if you're 40% in GS finals, if that stat is for example 18-27. Still makes you the best player ever in GS wins. Win to loss ratio in the final is merely just a number for bookies and statistic analysts, and is almost useless in real life of a player. And even if you acknowledge it, why take it as a negative thing. It always should be read positive imo: 16 GS finals. No need to dwell on lost opportunities. For me losing in R4 could also be considered a lost opportunity to win the GS. Who knows what would have Nadal done if he came over Djokovic in QF?
 

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So, reaching the final shows you are good but failing there shows , you are not good enough.
So not reaching the final means you're no good at all, and that you should retire asap? :shrug:
 

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Would you rather have:

1. 8-11 score in slam finals - Lendl
2. 7-4 score in slam finals - Wilander

I think the answer is clear.
 

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Making a final is a great achievement. One has to play seven matches to get there. Losing to a lower-ranked player, who was only mediocre until recently, stinks on an emotional lever for the top player.
 

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I've seen people insinuate that Djokovic would be considered a better player if he had an 8-3 or 8-4 record in GS finals as opposed to 8-8...when you think about it that sounds ridiculous. Basically it's saying Djokovic would be considered a better player if he had lost in the earlier rounds than in the finals...which sounds pretty silly. His GS finals record is only an issue when you compare it to 17-8 or 14-6 or 14-4 or something like that but in isolation you'd much rather have that than 8-3(meaning 5 fewer GS finals)...thoughts?
I would prefer having 8-8 record, in slam finals, rather than 8-0,1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7. To each his own!
 

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It just shows that Djokovic is not capable of rising his game to the occasion. At least not like Federer and Nadal.
 

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as a henman fan I call a huge amount of bullshit on this one
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I do get your point. Reaching more finals is of course a better achievement and you show to be an incredibly consistent player overall.

However, this sport is about results and winning (such as any sport), and winning 50% of your finals is not a stat that is No. 1 worthy IMO, it looks like a stat that shows he is mentally fragile.
But would it be better if he had a 8-2 finals record with 6 others being first round losses?
 

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Who was the better player this RG: Djokovic or Dimitrov? The answer to whether it's better to lose in the final or earlier in the tournament should be as obvious as the answer to that question.
 

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8-8 is better than 8-1 or 8-2, op is right here.

other examples: outside rg, dull is 5-6 in finals. fed 1-4 at rg.

whatever, djokovic missed some good opportunities, lost finals he should've won.

otoh he won slams where he could've lost easily (uso 2011, ao 2012, ao 2013, wim 2014)

so i guess it evens out...
 

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I don't think anyone's insinuating that. It's not about saying an 8-8 record is "worse" than an 8-3 record, you can't compare them because in one situation he's put him self in a position to win 16 times compared 9, and of those only converted 50%.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't think anyone's insinuating that. It's not about saying an 8-8 record is "worse" than an 8-3 record, you can't compare them because in one situation he's put him elf in a position to win 16 times compared 9, and of those only converted 50%.
Do you mean it is better to not put yourself in a winning position at all than put yourself in one and waste it? That's akin to saying Federer's performance at AO this year was ''better" than Murray's...
 

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It is worse to loose on the final because expectations. Every tournament (especially slams) is a building exercice towards success for a true champion, "arousal before climax" style. It's the last obstacle to the dream, and so defeat is more crushing.

Finals are not about judging the better player (all top ten players are excellent), but about separating "GOAT aspiring players" from the rest of the herd.
 

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Do you mean it is better to not put yourself in a winning position at all than put yourself in one and waste it? That's akin to saying Federer's performance at AO this year was ''better" than Murray's...
No. Again, stop bringing up situations in which someone has made LESS GS finals as a point of comparison, making a GS final is always a good thing, that we can all agree on. The only comparison is between other records out of 16 attempts.
 
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