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Discussion Starter #1
especially the media. In 01 during the Open against Kafel; it was as plain as day that something was wrong with Guga. No he was not his head, it was his body more specifically his hip. Guga since Monte Carlo that year was talking about severe groin pains. He played through it but it caught up to him at the Open.

Later on after Oz 02 he found out that his groin pain was a symptom from the real injury the hip. Guga went to a bunch of dipshit doctors who all told him it was the groin and only after Oz did he learn the truth. In 01 after the Open Guga had so many points ahead of Hewitt that had it not been for his hip he would have finished number one two years in a row, but no we lost a great classy representative of the sport and what took his place was crass at its worst.

I don't know how the rest of you feel but I am still upset about it. I do think Guga will eventually comeback into the top 10 and top 5 and maybe get his number one ranking back. It won't happen this year but I would like to believe that he can make it back into the top ten.

When I hear people call JC the "king of clay" I laugh, He like Hewitt benefited in so many ways from Guga's injury. I want the real "king of clay" back not some pretender and as much as I do love JC's game that is what he is compared to Guga. Once Guga gets his confidence back which he lost due to his injury he will rise again and hoist that RG trophy and other clay titles and rule the sand once again.
 

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It kills me, to see JC's success myself. I can't resent Hewitt 'cause I just adore him. But I love Guga. I can't see JC excelling the way Gus did and also doing that on hardcourts and winning a year-end champs on a hard court or indoor. I miss the dominating of Gustavo Kuerten SO MUCH. Maybe I should take up prayer if I miss him so much being It Boy, but it's up to him, I have nothing to do with his fate. :( I wish I did... well, look at the bright side, Rogi will soon be no. 1
 

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Ferrero was being called the "Prince of Clay" before Guga's injuries came about. Ferrero beat Guga in a tough 5 set match in Rome in 2001 - before guga's injuries came about. Ferrero choked away the RG semis in 2000, in his first RG.

I have absolutely no doubt that at his best, in his prime, Guga is better than what Ferrero has shown us so far. But Guga is 26. Injuries or not, to say that Ferrero has only been so successful because of Guga's injuries is not only bitter, it's completely blind.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Choke away? Great players have to be strong in mind and body. I am sure when guga won in 97 out of nowwhere, many were saying oh if only Muster and Kafel and Sergi didn't choke. LOL that is hogwash. Guga is the better player in everyway. Rome final was a brilliant match and JC deserved to win it, but one match win doesn't make you the better player. Had Guga been fresher the score probably would have been different. Guga has beaten him where it really matters on clay at RG. I am sure next year when Guga has his mind back he will do very well on the clay. I love JC's game but he is just not quite up to guga's level. Why can't his fans accept it? There are plenty of players I love but know they are not the best or top 5 or even top 10 in some cases but I love their games and their personalities. Fans need to be more objective and stop being so blind with their love for their favorite players.
 

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Dirk, are you an idiot? Or did you just somehow miss this sentance:

I have absolutely no doubt that at his best, in his prime, Guga is better than what Ferrero has shown us so far.
I have no time to form any sort of reply to that trash of a response you gave me, because it had nothing to do with what I posted.

Reading comprehension is key.
 

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Might I also stress that this :

Fans need to be more objective and stop being so blind with their love for their favorite players.
Applies to you, not to I. One of these days you will understand what my post said, and only then will you be worth discussing with.

WOW. Selective reading - or idiocy? - at it's best.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
LOL I am only pointing out the facts. Guga got hurt and players benefited from it. No love in doing that, your the one who seems to think that even an healthy guga would have fallen by the wayside on clay. Time will prove me right, I know it.
 

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You seem to have this curious idea that Kuerten would still be absolutely untouchable now if it weren't for his injuries. All players go through periods of dominance before their careers start to wane, that would most likely have happened to him without any of his hip problems. And I don't see Ferrero as being a mere pretender to Kuerten's crown - I think he has it in him to match his achievements, and I reckon he'll probably win another couple of titles at RG. Considering that he was in the Masters Cup final last year, he's not exactly far away from emulating Kuerten in that department too.

To be perfectly honest, I don't see Kuerten ever getting back to winning RG again or any other GS. It's not just a case of his body failing him, but modern players are starting to match and better his power - Robredo being a perfect example at this year's RG. He was faster, more powerful and more determined, and these sorts of players will only improve during the next few years.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
re

LOL Guga had a lower back problem that is why he was serving and volleying and not playing his game against Tommy as it was reported on ESPN by the lovely Mary Jo. To write Guga off is a big mistake. Guga would have dominated clay if not for his hip injury for another few years and his hardcourt results would have improved as well. He might not come, but if his body is ok he will cause his mental toughness is just as great if not more great than Hewitt. Guga is just not loud and obnoxious about it. If you put Guga and JC on court right now and they both played their best tennis, guga would win in straight sets. Time will prove me right I believe.
 

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I saw the last three sets of that match, and I remember Kuerten serve-volleying on about three points at maximum. And if him and Ferrero played each other now and they were both at their best, I'd easily tip Ferrero - leaving aside all of Kuerten's injuries, his form has declined while Ferrero's has improved.
 

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What a non sense of an argument. Im sorry, but I read this and felt it was a big waste of my three minutes. So I had to point it out. :p
 

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Just elaborating, its really stupid when you try to assess "who is better if". It's just impossible. How can anybody know what would happen if Guga hadnt got injured? Maybe he would lose a heart breaking Us Open final to a tough opponent, decline mentally and never win a single thing anymore. Or maybe he could have won it and then everything else and would be dominating. HOW CAN YOU KNOW?
And to diminish Ferrero's talent like this is stupid, I'm afraid. He might not have gotten the three RG titles, and all the stuff Guga WON, but he was up there giving himself a chance many times, and that is more deserving of a "well done" than being called a farse.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Guga was not and never was mentally weak. Had he made that Open final and lost it to Pete he wouldn't have slumped. He always got better and was always improving. Guga was just born a real champion mentally. Did he get outplayed yes especially on hardcourts till he really became great on hardcourts. Had it not been for his hip injury he would likely have 5 RGs by now, definitely 4 RGs. If Guga had some decent doctors and was able to treat his hip and not his groin then he might have avoided this surgery. No I will not reassess my thoughts. JC is a damn good player and his improvement were always in sight, but think how Guga would have continued to improve had it not been for that terrible tragic injury. The guy was the best baseliner by far on any surface before his injury.

Guga's decline was soley because of his hip. Sure it fucked up his mind and his confidence but it terrible destroyed his body and his stamina level has not been the same and sadly might never be the same. Still I think 04 clay season and the rest of the year will be a very good one for him. Oh and ask yourself has JC ever had a Guga (00,01) year on clay yet? Yeah I thought so. I'm not taking anything away from JC but JC at his best couldn't beat Guga at his best in my opinion. Here is hoping that JC doesn't let his nagging injuries turn into a possible career ender like Guga's might or might have.

Oh and Becky that should be a US Open title not final.
 

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Guga on Juan Carlos Ferrero: (SF of RG 2000)
"Well, I think he played a very good tennis to be in the semifinal. He played maybe enough to win today, too. He could be in the final. He's going to be here for many more years. He didn't lost his chance, you know, he's not going to have any other. I expect to play a tough opponent. I knew he's going to play like this. I think he played close to his best level, great confidence. Me, too. So was a good match for both. I think we both have to go out and he push me close to my limit. I was really had to do everything right to beat him."

Guga: (SF of RG 2001)
"I find that never the perfection arrive so nearby.” "I feel like I was playing my best tennis. Of course I missed quite a lot of shots but I was moving well and was seeing my targets - I was aggressive.”
"I feel when I'm playing my best tennis I know I can beat the other guys, and when I really feel the ball, well, it's tough on the other guy,"

That’s all what I think… :)
 

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It's really true that because of Guga's incident that he hasn't been the same player and that other players have benefitted from it.

They called Ferrero the Prince of Clay because Guga was the King, and Guga and Ferrero are friends!

Ferrero may not ever have the talent of Guga, but he's still making his way and taking his oppurtunities as they come along.
 

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I never diminished JC's talent, I was just spiteful. I'm a flawwed human being though, ignore me... and I dont really care for Ferrero anymore just 'cause I am watch tennis less these days, but I still dont think his non-clay court successes will ever match Guga's, fair?--this is what I hope as well, 'cause Guga makes me smile--I just dont want anyone modern to match him, just like I hope nobody breaks Sampras' 14 Slam record

as for Guga's injury, anything could happen had it never come, but I think we all mutually wish the injury never came
 
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