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Discussion Starter #1
Because if it was, I'd be worried. Each guy had multiple opportunities to win the match. Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer never would have collapsed like that. When they do, it's usually due to the pressure put on them by their rival, not an independent, out of the blue collapse.

And yes, this was their first opportunity to win a slam, but could you imagine if Djokovic, Federer, or Nadal could barely hit the ball while serving for the match/playing a final set tiebreaker? Each guy played timid and was afraid to lose.

Hopefully we never see something like that again.
 

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Thiem certainly wasn't timid, he was clearly in serious physical discomfort by the end of the 5th.
 

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I'm thinking back to the Wimbledon final last year and comparing it to this match, since both were 5 set matches. Well, Djokovic and Federer both in their 30's (and Fed close to 40) managed to produce far better quality tennis. Arguably Fed choked in some moments in the TB but overall he was very good. And though Djokovic wasn't playing his best he was rock solid mentally.

Yea, the big 3 even on a bad day would never play this muggy, that's for sure.
 

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I'm thinking back to the Wimbledon final last year and comparing it to this match, since both were 5 set matches. Well, Djokovic and Federer both in their 30's (and Fed close to 40) managed to produce far better quality tennis. Arguably Fed choked in some moments in the TB but overall he was very good. And though Djokovic wasn't playing his best he was rock solid mentally.

Yea, the big 3 even on a bad day would never play this muggy, that's for sure.
Last year's USO final was quite good, we could say that both deserved to win that one, Medvedev refusing to choke all the way and fighting until the last point. This was the opposite of that final.
 

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It kinda was. But we should judge them fairly, in a normal world. This wasn't quite. There needs to be fans, asap.
 

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And yes, this was their first opportunity to win a slam, but could you imagine if Djokovic, Federer, or Nadal could barely hit the ball while serving for the match/playing a final set tiebreaker? Each guy played timid and was afraid to lose.

Hopefully we never see something like that again.
We will see, as even Sinner, FAA and De Minaur are perennial chokers, so the youngest NextGen have this same trait.

No escape from choking, emotion will have it very hard in big tourneys as he hates it the most.
Chokehater and me are only at 2-3. places :sick:
 

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No, clearly not. There are multiple unique factors to consider that explain the level of tennis:
  1. It's a slam final between two players with no slams to their names, one of which is in their first slam final and one of which has lost their first three, both of whom know that this is a huge opportunity after years of big 3 dominance.
  2. It's the second tournament back after nearly 6 months of no tennis due to COVID.
  3. There was no crowd.
It's extremely unfair to compare this match to any recent slam finals with the big 3. Unlike our two competitors today, the big 3 are extremely seasoned to these kinds of situations, each with nearly 20 slams to their name (and many more finals). You also cannot overstate what a mental burden the many years of big 3 dominance puts on players who find themselves in these seemingly once-in-a-lifetime situations.

We all know that both players are able to play far better tennis than they did today, it's just being able to do so in a slam final that will take time. Once the first slam burden is off their backs, as it is now for Thiem, it's going to be far easier for them mentally to play their best tennis in the most high-pressure situations.
 

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No, clearly not. There are multiple unique factors to consider that explain the level of tennis:
  1. It's a slam final between two players with no slams to their names, one of which is in their first slam final and one of which has lost their first three, both of whom know that this is a huge opportunity after years of big 3 dominance.
  2. It's the second tournament back after nearly 6 months of no tennis due to COVID.
  3. There was no crowd.
It's extremely unfair to compare this match to any recent slam finals with the big 3. Unlike our two competitors today, the big 3 are extremely seasoned to these kinds of situations, each with nearly 20 slams to their name (and many more finals). You also cannot overstate what a mental burden the many years of big 3 dominance puts on players who find themselves in these seemingly once-in-a-lifetime situations.

We all know that both players are able to play far better tennis than they did today, it's just being able to do so in a slam final that will take time. Once the first slam burden is off their backs, as it is now for Thiem, it's going to be far easier for them mentally to play their best tennis in the most high-pressure situations.
agree, also thiem already displayed great great tennis in 2 of his 3 finals. especially the AO.
 

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If it is.. You can certainly cancel out whatever is left of the american audience watching this game. No one in this country is going to continue watching this trainwreck. You'll definitely have problems selling tickets to Flushing too. I equate it to the NBA now. You dont have the viewers because we have already witnessed greatest and much better players than the game can currently provide.

We got to watch Jordan/Shaq/Kobe etc. are their peaks. We don't need to see pretenders. Its the same in tennis. We got to watch Pete/Agassi/Fed/Nadal/Djoker in their primes and some other solid players like Courier Murray Safin etc. . Obviously no one nearly is good is going to come around for quite a long time that matches their abilities and greatness
 

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well it should get better than that, but you won't have the epic fedals and djokals where the tennis is still great at 5 hours.

Theim has done better than this, i.e. Rafa 2018 USO, but the nerves got to him tonight. I don't find Zverev that interesting, he's a monster server with potentially huge groundstrokes that's either on or off, but there wasn't much of interest in this match re. tactics etc. Would way rather watch Med or Shap so perhaps someday THiem/Med?SHap/Felix/Tsitsi might produce very high level slam finals ...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It's extremely unfair to compare this match to any recent slam finals with the big 3. Unlike our two competitors today, the big 3 are extremely seasoned to these kinds of situations, each with nearly 20 slams to their name (and many more finals). You also cannot overstate what a mental burden the many years of big 3 dominance puts on players who find themselves in these seemingly once-in-a-lifetime situations.

We all know that both players are able to play far better tennis than they did today, it's just being able to do so in a slam final that will take time. Once the first slam burden is off their backs, as it is now for Thiem, it's going to be far easier for them mentally to play their best tennis in the most high-pressure situations.
I'm not just comparing Zverev and Thiem to today's Big 3. Even when Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic didn't have slams, their first slams were convincing and they pounced on the first opportunities they got.

Also, Nadal and Federer were basically the "Big 2" of Djokovic's early career. When he beat Federer in the semis of the AO in 2008, he embraced his role as the heavy favorite. Thiem had to fight from two sets down from someone who essentially choked.
 

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I'm not just comparing Zverev and Thiem to today's Big 3. Even when Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic didn't have slams, their first slams were convincing and they pounced on the first opportunities they got.

Also, Nadal and Federer were basically the "Big 2" of Djokovic's early career. When he beat Federer in the semis of the AO in 2008, he embraced his role as the heavy favorite. Thiem had to fight from two sets down from someone who essentially choked.
You shouldn't really be comparing them to young big 3 either, it's obvious they aren't on that class or they wouldn't be slamless so long after breaking through to top 10. They're more like Tsonga/ Berdych/ Ferrer/Nishikori level players, and I'd imagine this is what would probably happen if two of them were paired up in their only slam final.
 
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  • US Open 2020 should not be a sample or a preview of anything given its special condition (long COVID postponement, social distancing, no crowd,...)
  • It's unfair to compare current gen to "peak" Big 3 because we all know the Big 3 is a phenomenon of tennis. If we expect current gen to reach that level, we simply expect too much.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You shouldn't really be comparing them to young big 3 either, it's obvious they aren't on that class or they wouldn't be slamless so long after breaking through to top 10. They're more like Tsonga/ Berdych/ Ferrer/Nishikori level players, and I'd imagine this is what would probably happen if two of them were paired up in their only slam final.
I mean, I know we’ll never be able to see what would happen if those guys played for a slam final without the Big 3 in their way, but I’m almost certain that Tsonga, Berdych, etc. wouldn’t squander opportunities like that. I think they appreciated the dominance of the Big 3 more than anyone, since they faced them at their peak.
 

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I mean, I know we’ll never be able to see what would happen if those guys played for a slam final without the Big 3 in their way, but I’m almost certain that Tsonga, Berdych, etc. wouldn’t squander opportunities like that. I think they appreciated the dominance of the Big 3 more than anyone, since they faced them at their peak.
Dunno about that, precisely because of how they appreciated the domination of the big 3, they would know it was a once-in-a-lifetime chance and could choke just as badly. del Potro and Cilic managed to redline in their first final, but the performance in the only slam final of most these players were hardly convincing. The last big chance before Fedal domination, 2004 RG final was extremely chokey as well, hard to expect players to cope with pressure that well. We'll have to see what happens next, normally these young players should do better in their next chance.
 
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