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Surface Homogenization is the Biggest conspirancy in tennis ever!

3318 Views 23 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  BankaiKenpachi
Surface homogenization never happened, you have aces being hit more often at slams nowadays than back in the 90's, People who bring this argument usually love to defent the 90's era and its achievements, but the fact is that the 90's was the only decade of the open era without a super consistent player, Sampras being the most consistent of the decade still pales outside slams and on claycourts. There always been a very consistent player such as Connors, Borg, Mcenroe, Lendl, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, players who could play multiple finals at every slam, meanwhile winning/and reaching finals at many other big tournaments outside slams.
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Yep. Global warming and evolution too. And the moon landing.
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Yep. Global warming and evolution too. And the moon landing.
How do you explain this? there are more aces being hit in every GS.

There were ball and raquet changes , but that happened in every generation

If there is any era characterized by its surface homogenization It was Laver's one were 3/4 slams were played on grass surface.
globalization is a much bigger problem.
globalization is a much bigger problem.
some idiot decided to make tennis more accessible by putting public courts in my country. Now I see poor and dirty middle class children playing it. This is the biggest problem.
some idiot decided to make tennis more accessible by putting public courts in my country. Now I see poor and dirty middle class children playing it. This is the biggest problem.
wasn't talking about tennis globalization. i support poor kids.
as many aces are hit now as they were in the past because of improved racket technology as well as stronger (and taller) players. BUT I do agree that to some degree the homogenization is exaggerated
Regarding aces, in the 90's serving consistently above 200km/h was quite exceptional, and above 210 it took a freak like Rusedski to do it. Just look at the ball speed now, a guy like Wawrinka hits regularly serves above 220km/h. And yet he's far from being an ace machine. With that speed in the 90's he would have competed with Ivanisevic.
^^^^ Better returners now too.
And how often did they have the speed gun going back then?
I can recall Agassi in pose (he was a good showman) after a 202K serve.
But true, getting over 200K's was a big deal up until the early 00's, improved racket technology and training techniques the most likely the enhancers here.
Carpet lives on in the hearts of true tennis fans.

Still thinking about you daily.

That surface played faster than a shot glass in the hands of Bernard.
as many aces are hit now as they were in the past because of improved racket technology as well as stronger (and taller) players. BUT I do agree that to some degree the homogenization is exaggerated
It´s not exaggerated. Nadal winning Wimbledon twice and Murray winning his title by pushing is all the evidence you need. Carpets don´t exist anymore. Outdoor tennis is all about baseline pushing, despite improved racket technology.
Op is correct, at least as far as slams go. The difference in aces has actually increased instead of decreased.

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as many aces are hit now as they were in the past because of improved racket technology as well as stronger (and taller) players.
This. It's mostly strings that fucked up everything.

As for the homogenization, it's not as bad on men's tour, although it is still obvious. There are 2 aspects of it:
*surface predominance (within ATP 500 and better) - obviously hard court. If it wasn't for Nadal, there would be less clay tournaments either. We have pretty much non-existent grass swing, carpet is nowhere to be found etc. On women's tour, there is no PM/P5 (Masters) played indoors.
*slower courts - 20 <= CPR <= 50. The FED Cup final this year was supposedly played on a court with CPR = 52. Everyone called it superfast. I mean what? Watch few videos from 80s - 90s and courts are even faster. Also, remember what happened to blue clay in Madrid etc. The man in my avatar may help you.

Had we had courts from 90s, players like Tsonga or Berdych would have been already sitting on few majors (Nadal << 14, Federer < 17, Djokovic < 7).
Tsonga and Tomas arent taking any majors from Rafa anywhere on any surface.
Tsonga and Tomas arent taking any majors from Rafa anywhere on any surface.
:spit: It's well established how good he is on grass when it actually plays like grass i.e. fast with low and irregular bounces. More than likely, the two would never get to play him, just as Federer never got to play him in HC slams for years.
:spit: It's well established how good he is on grass when it actually plays like grass i.e. fast with low and irregular bounces. More than likely, the two would never get to play him, just as Federer never got to play him in HC slams for years.
Federer vs him on fast courts I agree. I've always felt the H2H was a little skewed because of Nadal not making it to Federer on grass/fast courts/indoor hards/second part of the season anywhere near as often as Federer did in the first.

But claiming Tsonga or Berdych would be taking slams off him on faster surfaces is pushing it too far. Honestly if they were that good, they'd have made more USO semis at least(which is probably among the fastest courts on tour today). There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest Tsonga or Berdych would take down Nadal on fast courts. AO 2008 match was on plexi so that's hardly indicative of how they'd go on a super fast court but even if you want to count that match, it is 1 match is 6 years.

Re. Nadal on grass - are you implying Nadal's last 3 exits at W have to do with the conditions playing like real grass? Otherwise it doesn't make sense. He made 5 finals from 2006-2011(missing 2009. If you are saying he has benefited from grass slowing down since 2003 or so then I definitely agree with you, but that's a different argument entirely. You can't say that it's well established how he is on fast grass when he hasn't played on fast grass.
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I am only going to talk about the majors. It is well documented that they did change the surfaces of the majors in the last decade or so.

Wimbledon- Changed the grass combination and the hardness of the surface in 2001. This caused the ball to bounce more. The major change was in bounce, not speed. They also started to maintain courts better, which ensured no bad bounce. It is not a coincidence that two pure baseliners played the final for the first time in many many years in 2002. Federer also changed his style from SnV to attacking baseline tennis from 2003 onward and got instant success.

US Open- They slowed down the surface a little bit in 2003 and have been using the same combination since then.

RG- No real change, but with the use of lighter balls they tried to make it a little faster sometime in the last 10 years.

AO- Rebound ace was a horrible surface for the weather conditions in Australia. It could play faster or extremely slow depending on the weather. It used to get extremely sticky on a hot day. Plexicushion was better in those but the speed actually decreased slightly from 2008 when they changed it to Plexy. In 2013 they tried to quicken it up the Plexi surface and in 2014 it was quite faster and low bouncy (Darren Cahill mentioned that in the Federer-Nadal semi).
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But claiming Tsonga or Berdych would be taking slams off him on faster surfaces is pushing it too far.
How so, given that Tsonga obliterated him in AO? But my main point is Nadal simply cannot play on old-school grass. If a classical grass court offense is not your thing, you need an absolutely magnificent return to stand any chance at all. Neither is among his strengths.

Re. Nadal on grass - are you implying Nadal's last 3 exits at W have to do with the conditions playing like real grass?
Yes, he always struggled in the early rounds, even in the years when he made the finals (or won it). Remember him playing a five setter with Kendrick among others.
Nope. Close thread
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