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Discussion Starter #1
.... they say in boxing.

-- Federer's single handed backhand is a bad match-up for Nadal's topspin.

-- Federer's mobility and versatiliy on the court bothers Djokovic by breaking his rythm, while Djokovic doesn't put the kind of spin on his shots that troubles Federer.

-- double-hander Djokovic isn't bothered by Nadal's topsin. Thus, his flat deep groundstrokes unsettle Nadal more than Nadal's bouncing deep groundstrokes unsettle Djokovic.
 

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Yes they do.
 
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why does murray bend over for nadal when in theory (at least) he has an evern better game than djokovic vs nadal

more variety
better first serve
better at the net
 

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.... they say in boxing.

-- Federer's single handed backhand is a bad match-up for Nadal's topspin.

-- Federer's mobility and versatiliy on the court bothers Djokovic by breaking his rythm, while Djokovic doesn't put the kind of spin on his shots that troubles Federer.

-- double-hander Djokovic isn't bothered by Nadal's topsin. Thus, his flat deep groundstrokes unsettle Nadal more than Nadal's bouncing deep groundstrokes unsettle Djokovic.
And what about Andy Murray? What does he do to unsettle any of the other big 3?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
And what about Andy Murray? What does he do to unsettle any of the other big 3?
My hypothesis there is that Murray is by instinct a defensive counterpuncher, while Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - different as their styles are - all play brilliant attacking tennis and have superb shot accuracy. To have a chance against them one needs to put THEM on the defensive, Murray rarely does so.
 

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^true about Fed but Nadal gives his opponents plenty of opportunities to attack.

Even against Fed he was landing a lot of backhands short, leaning back a bit when he hit them as opposed to leaning in.

In theory there's no reason for murray not to take advantage of those, and we already know Novak crushes shots like that.
 

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.... they say in boxing.

-- Federer's single handed backhand is a bad match-up for Nadal's topspin.

-- Federer's mobility and versatiliy on the court bothers Djokovic by breaking his rythm, while Djokovic doesn't put the kind of spin on his shots that troubles Federer.

-- double-hander Djokovic isn't bothered by Nadal's topsin. Thus, his flat deep groundstrokes unsettle Nadal more than Nadal's bouncing deep groundstrokes unsettle Djokovic.
Since when?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
^true about Fed but Nadal gives his opponents plenty of opportunities to attack.

Even against Fed he was landing a lot of backhands short, leaning back a bit when he hit them as opposed to leaning in.

In theory there's no reason for murray not to take advantage of those, and we already know Novak crushes shots like that.
One issue that hurts Nadal against Djokovic is a tendency to step forward into the court after the serve. Djokovic returns fast, deep and low - he's one of the best returners I've seen in the past 30 years, matched perhaps only by Connros and Agassi - putting Nadal immediately on the defensive. Nadal needs to step back again to play these balls, and this is when he's oddly positioned and hits too short.
 
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indeed, styles make fights... great clash in styles... bad match ups... southpaw stance issues... tennis is boxing without the blood, pretty much...
 

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Tennis is a matchup sport...not anything new.

However, form and confidence can overcome bad matchups.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think the question was, since when have Djokovic´s groundstrokes been flat. I´d like to konw that, as well.
Well flatter than Nadal's, no?
 

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My hypothesis there is that Murray is by instinct a defensive counterpuncher, while Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - different as their styles are - all play brilliant attacking tennis and have superb shot accuracy. To have a chance against them one needs to put THEM on the defensive, Murray rarely does so.
Murray has a winning head to head against Federer, starting way back when Murray was a teenager up until now. Fed is the most aggressive of the three, so your argument doesn't make sense.
 

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It doesn't make sense because Federer is the only one of the top 4 that plays "brilliant attacking tennis". At beat Rafito is neutral in that sense ane Nole is only slightly more offensive that that.
 

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Nole probably has the flattest backhand in the top 4.
 
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