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Sweet justice for those imbeciles who thought they were untouchable. Now they'll think twice before trying to pull this shit again.
 

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Discussion Starter #23


What they said in their defence

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49974289

Oriol Junqueras, former vice-president of Catalonia: "Voting and defending the republic from a parliament cannot be a crime."

Jordi Cuixart, president of Catalan language and culture organisation Òmnium Cultural: "What we did on 1 October [holding the 2017 referendum] was an exercise of collective dignity."

Carme Forcadell, ex-speaker of the Catalan parliament: "I didn't take part in any strategy, I restricted myself to fulfilling my duties as parliament speaker."

Jordi Turull, former Catalan government spokesman: "We weren't looking to involve people [in the bid for independence], that already existed, and so a political solution had to be provided."

Joaquim Forn, former Catalan interior minister: "I defended the referendum as a politician, but told Catalan police to follow court orders."

Jordi Sànchez, activist and ex-president of the Catalan National Assembly: "I am the victim of an injustice - there are no ideas or principles that should be silenced."

Raül Romeva, former external relations minister: "There is no international treaty prohibiting the right to self-determination. Not even the Spanish Constitution."

Dolors Bassa, ex-labour minister: "It was always clear to us that if a lot of people turned out to vote, it would help us when negotiating [with Madrid]... independence was always seen as something to be agreed."

Josep Rull, former territorial minister: "People vote and it's good that parties deliver... our manifesto was not challenged in court."

Carles Mundó, former justice minister: "The vote was not paid for with public funds, I saw [it] as a political protest."

Meritxell Borràs, former governance minister: "[The vote was] a political expression [that] held no legal consequences."

Santi Vila, former business minister: "I saw the referendum as a political protest."
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Of course, I mean slaves running away from their masters used to be illegal not that long time ago.
This is wrong on so many levels :facepalm: Catalans (Im one) are not slaves but citizens of a fully democratic, advanced country, enjoying (as an autonomous region of Spain) the highest level of self-goverment any region in the world has. Catalans are also among the richest citizens of Spain. If Catalans (Im one) wanted independence there is a legal, constitutional procedure for that. The so-called referendum was not declared ilegal by the central goverment but by the Constitutional Court, the highest Court in the country. In advanced, democratic countries things are done legally, not by force or by mobs in the street. Catalan political leaders were openly defying legality for years in what they called "process", an ilegal endeavour to ilegally abolish the democratic Spanish Constitution and Catalan Estatute of Autonomy in the territory of Catalonia and replace it by an autocratic (on top of illegal) "republic" where, among other things, judges were to be directly appointed, and removed, by the head of goverment. They never had the majority in Catalonia for that, as seen in every election for our Catalan parlament and goverment, where independentist parties never had majority. So they wanted to do it by force and do it now, they needed independence to get away with decades of corruption, as judges were already on their backs.

So, those leaders were charged and processed by the Supreme Court with all the garanties of a democratic justice and found gilty. End of story. This is not some islamic dictatorship with judges appointed and sacked by the autocrat (Turkey) but a fully democratic country and every political goal is pursuable by legal means. Unlike most countries, including UE, where Constitution can not be ammended in certain things, like unity of the country, our Constitution is fully ammendable from alpha to omega, including secesion or even disintegration of the nation, but it must be done legally.

Those leaders are criminals and they are well in jail. Hopefully they will learn what democracy and rule of law is.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

This is wrong on so many levels :facepalm: Catalans (Im one) are not slaves but citizens of a fully democratic, advanced country, enjoying (as an autonomous region of Spain) the highest level of self-goverment any region in the world has. Catalans are also among the richest citizens of Spain. If Catalans (Im one) wanted independence there is a legal, constitutional procedure for that.
I didn't mean it literally, come on. :lol: Something being legal or illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's right or just, laws change all the time.
 

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You break the law, you're in jail. Quite simple. It's called civilization, specially when the broken law is expression of the democratic will of the people, as it is the case in Spain.

Anyway these criminals will very soon be on the street because Catalonia is such an opressed, enslaved :)facepalm:) country that it controls the prisons in its territory as part of its competences, so Catalan authorities (currently independentists) will apply all the benefits they legally can and all these criminals will be home in a matter of weeks, going to jail only to sleep at nights.
 

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Catalan independentist brutal agression to a woman for waving Spanish flag, just minutes ago in Tarragona, Catalonia:

 

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They knew what they've been asking for.
Separatism is absolute evil, should be dealt with mercilessly.
 

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Catalan independentist brutal agression to a woman for waving Spanish flag, just minutes ago in Tarragona, Catalonia:

She sort of brought that on herself with her taunts, LOL.

Considering that bullfighting is banned in Catalonia. This time the bull won.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

This is wrong on so many levels :facepalm: Catalans (Im one) are not slaves but citizens of a fully democratic, advanced country, enjoying (as an autonomous region of Spain) the highest level of self-goverment any region in the world has. Catalans are also among the richest citizens of Spain. If Catalans (Im one) wanted independence there is a legal, constitutional procedure for that. The so-called referendum was not declared ilegal by the central goverment but by the Constitutional Court, the highest Court in the country. In advanced, democratic countries things are done legally, not by force or by mobs in the street. Catalan political leaders were openly defying legality for years in what they called "process", an ilegal endeavour to ilegally abolish the democratic Spanish Constitution and Catalan Estatute of Autonomy in the territory of Catalonia and replace it by an autocratic (on top of illegal) "republic" where, among other things, judges were to be directly appointed, and removed, by the head of goverment. They never had the majority in Catalonia for that, as seen in every election for our Catalan parlament and goverment, where independentist parties never had majority. So they wanted to do it by force and do it now, they needed independence to get away with decades of corruption, as judges were already on their backs.

So, those leaders were charged and processed by the Supreme Court with all the garanties of a democratic justice and found gilty. End of story. This is not some islamic dictatorship with judges appointed and sacked by the autocrat (Turkey) but a fully democratic country and every political goal is pursuable by legal means. Unlike most countries, including UE, where Constitution can not be ammended in certain things, like unity of the country, our Constitution is fully ammendable from alpha to omega, including secesion or even disintegration of the nation, but it must be done legally.

Those leaders are criminals and they are well in jail. Hopefully they will learn what democracy and rule of law is.
What was the legal way? (honest question)
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Ammend the Constitution.
Needs what, 2/3 of favourable votes in Spanish Parliament? In practice, that's the same as having no legal way.

I'm not taking sides, Catalan independence sounds quite selfish given it's the richest region.
 

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A legal way is a legal way, too bad they don't like it. If they can't get legal majority, well fuck off then.
 

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3d night of total chaos in Barcelona. Pro-independence terrorists set the city on fire, threw bengals at police choppers, beated up people trying to extinguish fires too near their cars/houses...

Man evacuates his flat with baby as flames get too close



Pro-independence terrorists beat up man trying to extinguish fire. Man in serious situation in hospital.



Bengals fired at police helicopter by pro-indep. terrorists

 

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https://simpleflying.com/catalonia-protests-barcelona-airport/

There is so much news about this in Hong Kong. People are happy to see Catalans getting inspiration from our way of protest.
I support HK protesters because they clearly want to protect their rights and freedom. It is doubtful whether Catalans (some, not all) are really fighting for freedom or for pure economic-tribal based separatism based on some old stories and emotions. Spain is not a dictatorship, the left dream of 'revolution' is anachronous, at least 50 years late. Half of Catalans are against independence. The economic issue is also questionable. There could be an argument made that Catalonia is rich because it IS part of Spain, and that it would suffer economically in case of separation. They would need to apply for EU again and surely the rest of Spain would veto them. Big banks would probably leave. Uncertainty would last too long before possible, but not guaranteed stabilization - huge damage. There is no clear and agreed path to take the day after.

Of course, I understand that currently irrational rather than rational reasons prevail, like often happens around the world in different times. In this case, an unrealized dream of independence that would immediately lose all its charm once it happens to become reality.

I would support anything that would be legal and a result of peaceful agreement with clear way ahead. Because again, it is a democratic country not a dictatorship, and Catalonia enjoys a high level of substantial and real autonomy. Besides, I am personally for more unification (not forced but agreed) and less separation and borders. I hate borders in principle, although I'm aware they are inevitable and required.
 
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