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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

I assume these police are themselves Catalan, which makes their attitudes even more disturbing.

But what is probably most disturbing is that I am outraged by this, but Las Vegas just gets another shrug from me because it is unexceptional.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Disgusting.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

I know very little about the intricacies of the political situation over there but surely this show of brutality will make independence inevitable.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

These people were actually voting to secede from the Spanish state. Why did they expect? That the Spanish government would allow it just like that? States have always cracked down rebellions.

If the Catalans want to insist in their nationalist charade and have their own little country, they're going to have to face the consequences.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

One side of story ,Obviously police would't attack if they themselves face hooligan or mob-attack like situation ....Also , police is there in that gear anticipating mob like situation and they are there to stop illigal thing which is unfortunately "the referendum" . it's their job .
I can see plenty of ppl standing there unharmed by police , those who try to break order and stop official to do their job get this type of treatment

Also , can anybody tell me , how many Catalan leader get jailed in "Spanish brutality"...these selfish leader send innocent hot blooded youth the fight the war with police in catalan emotion , so that they can loot bigger ammount of money what Spanish authority allow them in union govt ..
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

One side of story ,Obviously police would't attack if they themselves face hooligan or mob-attack like situation ....Also , police is there in that gear anticipating mob like situation and they are there to stop illigal thing which is unfortunately "the referendum" . it's their job .

I can see plenty of ppl standing there unharmed by police , those who try to break order and stop official to do their job get this type of treatment



Also , can anybody tell me , how many Catalan leader get jailed in "Spanish brutality"...these selfish leader send innocent hot blooded youth the fight the war with police in catalan emotion , so that they can loot bigger ammount of money what Spanish authority allow them in union govt ..

There were many young civilians who were doing nothing but vote, march or protest and got attacked brutally by the Spanish police, mate. It is very clear with the clips, they even attakced 65-70 year olds in the street. Many world leaders condemned it. No way to defend this.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

There were many young civilians who were doing nothing but march or protest and got attacked brutally by the Spanish police, mate. It is very clear, many world leaders condemned it. Please don't defend this.
Those ppl are in street knows that the referendum is illegal, like everymovement they did stuff knowing the risk...i am asking where are the Catalan leader are they jailed for organizing this "illegal referendum" ?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Those ppl are in street knows that the referendum is illegal, like everymovement they did stuff knowing the risk...i am asking where are the Catalan leader are they jailed for organizing this "illegal referendum" ?


Spanish state declared as an illegal, of course they wouldn't say it is legal. Founding of USA was "illegal" too according to Britain.

Thing is central government could let people peacefully vote or march and then they could ignore the result.

But they chose to attack people. Many innocent people (even 15 year old kids!!!) got hit, deadly injured, just because they wanted to vote. Watch the clips. You can't defend this...
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Those ppl are in street knows that the referendum is illegal, like everymovement they did stuff knowing the risk...i am asking where are the Catalan leader are they jailed for organizing this "illegal referendum" ?
Spanish government and catalan government are using police and the citizens of Catalonia as puppets for their own fights.

The spanish government knew this was illegal and that the catalan goverment was organizing it, so they could have just arrested the key people behind and finish it. Instead of wanting to arrest a couple of high ranked politicians they preferred to send 10.000 policemen to confront them to an angry mob of tens of thousands of people in the streets.

The catalan government knew that the spanish goverment was sending thousand of policemen and antiriots to Catalonia to do that ... and they still asked the people to go out to confront the spanish police. Knowing that people would get hurt just to get the photographs they wanted to try to gain foreigner sympathy.

Both goverments should resign because this is just embarrassing to witness. But they won't and the shit-show will continue in the next couple of days. And as one dear friend of mine (that is catalan) use to say, there is nothing more spanish than the catalan political corruption.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Spanish state declared as an illegal, of course they wouldn't say it is legal. Founding of USA was "illegal" too according to Britain.

Thing is central government could let people peacefully vote or march and then they could ignore the result.

But they chose to attack people. Many innocent people (even 15 year old kids!!!) got hit, deadly injured, just because they wanted to vote. Watch the clips. You can't defend this...
Of course, I mean slaves running away from their masters used to be illegal not that long time ago.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Spanish state declared as an illegal, of course they wouldn't say it is legal. Founding of USA was "illegal" too according to Britain.

Thing is central government could let people peacefully vote or march and then they could ignore the result.

But they chose to attack people. Many innocent people (even 15 year old kids!!!) got hit, deadly injured, just because they wanted to vote. Watch the clips. You can't defend this...
It's unfortunate that situation goes out of control....Spanish govt must investigate why police need to take severe action on mass , is there mob violence or they just use force from first ...
Also ,I wish spain survive the madness , turn out is less than 45% ,mean many ppl respect the decision of central govt and have faith on Madrid....To keep that alive Justice should serve irrespective of side

Turn out that communist separatist influence did't completely die from pre-franco era there ...
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

But they chose to attack people. Many innocent people (even 15 year old kids!!!) got hit, deadly injured, just because they wanted to vote.

If you think that what happened yesterday in Catalonia is like Tiananmen square i think you will be very disappointed when you realise that nobody died, noone shot a single bullet, nobody got critically injured and nobody had the need to spend a night in a hospital.

Out of the 700+ injuries reported, they are saying that well over 90% are minor injuries or "just" anxiety attacks.



Here you have a video of a spanish police trying to convince a pro-independence guy to not use his 4-year-old as a human shield in a riot.

I mean, who on earth brings his little kid to a place they know a riot can start?
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

Spanish government and catalan government are using police and the citizens of Catalonia as puppets for their own fights.

The spanish government knew this was illegal and that the catalan goverment was organizing it, so they could have just arrested the key people behind and finish it. Instead of wanting to arrest a couple of high ranked politicians they preferred to send 10.000 policemen to confront them to an angry mob of tens of thousands of people in the streets.

The catalan government knew that the spanish goverment was sending thousand of policemen and antiriots to Catalonia to do that ... and they still asked the people to go out to confront the spanish police. Knowing that people would get hurt just to get the photographs they wanted to try to gain foreigner sympathy.

Both goverments should resign because this is just embarrassing to witness. But they won't and the shit-show will continue in the next couple of days. And as one dear friend of mine (that is catalan) use to say, there is nothing more spanish than the catalan political corruption.
I wish ur nation and ppl strength in the darkest hour like this...nobody deserve to die for puny interest of some politician who are like a blip int the large history of civilization ...
what surprising me why ppl become so selfish that they think their region deserve separate state because they don't want to carry geographically less resources brother of them ..are they going to abandon week family members if such situation arise in family ?

Also , madrid govt as u point out should act like more mature one
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

If you think that what happened yesterday in Catalonia is like Tiananmen square..

I never claimed that so you do not need to convince me for anything. And I agree with most of your first post here. Fair points. Central government could just leave them alone and ignore the result afterwards. Regional police would the job.


I visited both Barcelona and Madrid, lovely people. As a foreigner, I have no agenda on Catalonia being independent or not, actually I don't really care because I don't live there. Spain as a whole should discuss and decide together through peaceful negotiations. My core point is police interventions should be proportional and not violent, especially when it comes to peaceful protestors.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

I never claimed that so you do not need to convince me for anything. And I agree with most of your first post here. Fair points. Central government could just leave them alone and ignore the result afterwards. Regional police would the job.


I visited both Barcelona and Madrid, lovely people all over. As a foreigner, I have no agenda on Catalonia being independent or not, actually I don't really care because I don't live there. Spain as a whole should discuss and decide together through peaceful negotiations. My core point is police interventions should be proportional and not violent, especially when it comes to peaceful protestors.
I agree but the people in charge of catalan government and the spanish government really dislike each other, and both have demonstrated to be incapable of negotiating anything with each other. A solution would be both resigning, and let someone else try, but for some reason I dont think that is going to happen.

The referendum was a charade from the start so, as you said, spanish government could have just let them vote like they did in 2014 and say "hey, that wasnt binding, there were no census, no control of IDs or anything and it was all along illegal" and end of story. I still dont know who is the genious that thought sending 10K police officers was not only a good idea but the best of all ideas they had.

The catalan goverment didnt really care about the referendum either. There were no guarantees of fair play, they knew most people wouldnt vote even without the police riots (that actually made people want to vote in the illegal referendum). They said that they would declare independence if YES won even if only 20% of people turned out to vote (that is IMO what triggered a bit the spanish government) and the most important of all, the catalan government announced yesterday that they would declare independence in the next few days literally BEFORE the scrutiny of the casted votes ... because who cared about the result of the referendum? Neither the spanish government nor the catalan one. And yet they kinda forced citizens and police to fight for it.

It's just too sad.
 

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Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

General strike in Catalonia to protest police violence during referendum

Two days after Catalonia held a banned independence referendum, the region will be operating at half speed on Tuesday because of a general strike called by small unions. The two large Spanish general workers’ unions, UGT and CC OO, have encouraged people to demonstrate in a “paro de país” (country stoppage) to protest the police violence on Sunday, but underscored that they are not participating in the call for a general strike.

For weeks, the separatist movement has been trying to attract Catalonia’s majority unions to their cause. But the latter’s position is to demand a legal, negotiated referendum for the region, not a unilateral secession.

“CC OO and UGT are not calling the general strike for October 3,” said the country’s top two unions in a joint release. “Our organizations in Catalonia are encouraging participation in protests against the excesses committed on October 1. In no way are we going to support positions that provide backing for the unilateral declaration of independence.”

The strike has been called to protest National Police and Guardia Civil action on Sunday after almost 850 people required medical attention as ugly scenes played out – scenes that were beamed around the world.

Minimum services have been established during rush hour (from 6.30am to 9.30am, and from 5pm to 8pm) for subway, bus and train services. The strike has been backed by the Catalan executive, known as the Generalitat.

National Police and Guardia Civil on Monday night left – or are set to do so on Tuesday – hotels where they were staying after feeling pressure from local residents in at least three locations in Catalonia: Pineda de Mar, Calella and Figueres.

In addition, thousands of people have gathered this morning in Barcelona and Reus to protest in front of police stations.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy is set to make an appearance in Congress, and is due to call together all political parties in a bid to deal with the Catalan crisis.

Data from the poll shows around 90% of voters cast their ballots in favor of independence. However, participation was just 2,262,424 of a total voter pool of 5,343,358, for a turnout rate of 42%, according to the Catalan government’s own figures. The abstention rate was 58%.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/29/inenglish/1506680598_177837.html
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Police brutality in Catalonia to stop independence referendum

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49974289

Catalonia leaders jailed for sedition by Spanish court


Spain's Supreme Court has sentenced nine Catalan separatist leaders to between nine and 13 years in prison for sedition over their role in an independence referendum in 2017.

Three other defendants were found guilty of disobedience and fined, but will not serve prison sentences.

The 12 politicians and activists had all denied the charges.

Separatists in Catalonia were planning mass civil disobedience ahead of the verdict.

The prosecution had sought up to 25 years in prison for Oriol Junqueras, the former vice-president of Catalonia and the highest-ranking pro-independence leader on trial.

Mr Junqueras was handed the longest sentence of 13 years for sedition and misuse of public funds.

The other sentences ranged from nine years upwards.
 
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