Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Obviously it's a truism -> I think the biggest difference between the best players in the world and the players which we call "very good" is an ability to play "big points" really well. This is even more important factor than technical skills. I think mainly about Djokovic and Nadal because Federer is a very strong mental player but beside that he's a real genius. There are many players who are so good as Nadal and Djokovic or maybe even better in a technical department but won't be so high in the ranking with so many achievements (Blake for example).
I suppose generally it's a matter of concentration. Nadal or Djokovic in the crucial moments on serve are extremely concentrated (and they had in the ass ball bouncing), they don't do stupid errors but most of all they hit first serve in the right time! Blake as opposed to them, almost always at saving break/set/match points, loses 1st serve because of lack of proper concentration. Unfortunately Blake hasn't got 2nd serve as good as Nalbandian. Therefore he loses so many tight matches in contrary to Djokovic or Nadal.

And remember, if you see that Blake saved (for example) 4 of 8 break points, it doesn't really matter because he he saved all those BP's in games which he eventually lost. [BP's stats sucks deeply but it is another issue]
:wavey:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34,169 Posts
In regards to your last point, that's what I've always thought too.

If a player has 15-40 on their opponent's serve, and it then goes to 30-40, but they break on the next point, this is not really a wasted opportunity. Yet the stats will show 1/2 break points converted.

After all, it's more important to save the game than an individual point.
 

·
May All Beings Be Happy!!
Joined
·
12,245 Posts
Voo thank u for your observation. As they say about statistics, they don't tell the story or in this case half the story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,922 Posts
i think you are doing an injustice to nadal and djokovic by saying that they are technically on the same level as other players - its not true at all.

blake's serve should never be compared to djokovic's serve. Novak's serve is technically much better and his rhythm and accuracy only gets better on the big pts. If you have good, solid technique it will hold up under pressure. This is also why federer is so good under pressure. Its because of his technique.

Another thing is that djokovic and nadal both move incredibly well on all surfaces. They move better than davydenko, nalbandian etc.

they also have significant margin on their shots that allows them to play well under pressure. Novak can put loop or can flatten out the ball depending on the play whereas blake plays at one speed all the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
i think you are doing an injustice to nadal and djokovic by saying that they are technically on the same level as other players - its not true at all.

blake's serve should never be compared to djokovic's serve. Novak's serve is technically much better and his rhythm and accuracy only gets better on the big pts. If you have good, solid technique it will hold up under pressure. This is also why federer is so good under pressure. Its because of his technique.

Another thing is that djokovic and nadal both move incredibly well on all surfaces. They move better than davydenko, nalbandian etc.

they also have significant margin on their shots that allows them to play well under pressure. Novak can put loop or can flatten out the ball depending on the play whereas blake plays at one speed all the time.
I agree about the issue of technical skills.
The role of mental concentration is to bring out
the best in your technique at the crucial moments. But this task is a
lot easier if your technique is solid/easily repeatable/with margin
for error.
Thus, the more secure your technique is, the more likely it is to hold
up under pressure.
 

·
@Ryan's Hat
Joined
·
19,893 Posts
Both Nadal & Novak are better players (technically) than Blake. So:

i think you are doing an injustice to nadal and djokovic by saying that they are technically on the same level as other players - its not true at all.
Voo De mar - find better example.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
A good tactic to improve break points saved is to bounce the ball way more when break point down, but stop bouncing at different number of bounces each time. Also, don't waste too much time after last bounce to get ball toss off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,295 Posts
There are many players who are so good as Nadal and Djokovic or maybe even better in a technical department but won't be so high in the ranking with so many achievements (Blake for example).
Agreed. There must be at least 300 if not 400 players who are as good or better than those 2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Agreed. There must be at least 300 if not 400 players who are as good or better than those 2
I see you've got some problem. This sarcasm isn't even funny :cuckoo:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i think you are doing an injustice to nadal and djokovic by saying that they are technically on the same level as other players - its not true at all.
I didn't mean only active players but maybe the word "many" indicates more players than I thought, I don't know. I don't want to waste time for analysing active players who are in my opinion on a similar or maybe a little higher technical level than these to players. Generally my first post was a consequence of the match Blake-Nadal and feeling what differ these players in their status.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,459 Posts
And remember, if you see that Blake saved (for example) 4 of 8 break points, it doesn't really matter because he he saved all those BP's in games which he eventually lost. [BP's stats sucks deeply but it is another issue]
:wavey:
Great example. Or yesterday, Wawa saved quite a few BPs but again, he lost all (except maybe one) games where he faced breakpoints. He even went from 2 BPs in a row to an AD, and then still got broken. So BPs saved are definitely VERY misleading statistics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,751 Posts
After all, it's more important to save the game than an individual point.
Nicely phrased.

Agree that a "break point games" conversion stat would be more useful.

Another useful stat would be a served for the match W/L stat. (ie. matches won when your opponent served for the match/lost after you served for the match. Same as Voo's match point stats)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
Voo, correlation does not mean causation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,484 Posts
Yes, my problem is that I like to make sarcasm out of bullshit analysis/comments like that one of yours. Any more questions?
Would you say Haas, for example, is technically inferior to Hewitt, for instance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
There is some truth to what you are saying, but likely not as important as the overall skill of the player. Federer, Nadal and the djokovic have been competitive on the ATP tour since around the age of 17, blake was probably still riding his bicycle at that same point. :) By age 20 nadal, djoker and federer are world beaters and Blake is not even on the tour. Can "mental toughness" explain that kind of difference in rankings?

You will never truly know the answer to your question without actually looking at the data and coming up with some testable hypotheses.

Parker
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top