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Should Djokovic Follow Magnus Carlson and stop competing in GS's.

3.9K views 56 replies 39 participants last post by  cb4_89  
#1 ·
Magnus Carlsen Is Giving Up The World Title. But The Carlsen Era Lives On.


The chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen announced last week that he will not defend his world championship next year. There are two ways to look at this news: One is with shock, given that Carlsen is maybe the greatest chess player of all time, at arguably the peak of his powers, with a good chance to win a sixth world title in 2023. But the other is without, given that Carlsen hinted several times that he had played his last world championship match in December.

Announcements like Carlsen’s aren’t uncommon across the sports world — see, for example, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps or Ashleigh Barty — but they always seem surprising. At this point, though, maybe they shouldn’t be, given the diminishing incentives for a great player to keep defending their place at the top.

Carlsen confirmed his intentions on Wednesday in the first episode of his podcast, “The Magnus Effect.” He said he had mulled his world championship future for more than a year, even before defeating Ian Nepomniachtchi for his fifth title, and that he was “pretty comfortable” with his decision to step aside. He confessed that he was “not motivated to play another match,” that “I don’t particularly like it” and that “I don’t have any inclination to play.” He added, “I don’t rule out a return [to world championship matches] in the future, but I wouldn’t particularly count on it, either.”

Carlsen’s legacy is largely secure: Many consider him the best player of all time. Chess has used the Elo rating system to rank players for more than a century, and by that metric, Carlsen is the GOAT. He surpassed Garry Kasparov’s record mark of 2851 after winning the London Chess Classic in December 2012, and he has stayed above that peak for most of the past decade.

But as in any other sport, comparing players of different eras is complicated. Robert Hess, a grandmaster and commentator for Chess.com, suggested that if you could pit today’s Carlsen — with today’s knowledge and today’s tools, having beaten today’s competition — against previous greats like Kasparov or Bobby Fischer, Carlsen would likely win.

“I’ve made this argument before, that essentially the high school physics teacher that you and I had knew more than Isaac Newton,” Hess said. “And that’s not to say that Isaac Newton wasn’t more talented. Isaac Newton just didn’t have the resources. Because of [their] predecessors, these players are better, and that’s true in most disciplines.”

Today’s chess champions study not only from books and historical games but also using the chess engine Stockfish and the neural network NNUE, which weren’t available to Kasparov and Fischer in their primes. But is Carlsen the best player of all time, adjusted for technological advancement? That’s impossible to say.

The arc of Carlsen’s world championships is the clearest proof of how his development has paralleled the advancements in how humans understand the game. In 2013, he wrested his first title from the reigning champ Viswanathan Anand. That was a best-of-12 series, but Carlsen only needed 10 games, winning 6.5 to 3.5. The next year, Anand challenged Carlsen for the title and even defeated him in one game, but Carlsen still won in 11 games, 6.5 to 4.5. In 2016, Carlsen appeared vulnerable, as challenger Sergey Karjakin earned the match’s first victory in Game 8. Carlsen evened the score in Game 10, though, and eventually won two rapid games as a tiebreaker. But the gap appeared to be narrowing.

Finally, in 2018, Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana completed one of the most impressive feats in chess history. The two grandmasters, ranked first and second in the world, played 12 straight draws before switching to the rapid format to break the tie. Carlsen won all three rapid games, but the match was otherwise a dead heat. On his podcast last week, Carlsen called his 2018 victory “the most fun” and “the most interesting.”

Carlsen’s 7.5 to 3.5 rout of Nepomniachtchi last fall was his most lopsided win yet, but Stockfish and NNUE told a fuller story of the skill on display. The match began with five straight draws, and Game 7 was, according to Stockfish, the most flawlessly played game in World Chess Championship history. Games 3 and 10 were tied for the second-most-accurate games played in championship history. The match shifted late in Game 6 when Carlsen won a record 136-move marathon that lasted nearly eight hours.

Training at that level is both mentally and physically draining; committing to another world championship would have meant six more months of that grind, followed by a rematch with Nepomniachtchi.1 That would have left Carlsen with something to lose and little to gain. “From a purely enjoyment perspective, I think that checks out,” Hess said. “I think from a competitive standpoint, it also makes a lot of sense.”


 
#2 ·
LOL what?
 
#3 ·
Not gonna happen, Djokovic purely plays to collect slams. It's quite obvious he doesn't really enjoy tennis much anymore, with his constant angry outbursts and whining on the court, even at his own team.



He also knows that he isn't half as loved as Fedal, and honestly reviled by a majority of the tennis fanbase to the point where underdogs get as much support as him. He needs a very very clear lead in all metrics ( which tbf he's trending towards) for people to forcibly admit that he's the GOAT even after retirement. He knows the way it currently stands most fans will never accept him as Goat, so he needs to force their hand with vulturing as many 250 draw level Grand Slams he can.
 
#4 ·
Not gonna happen, Djokovic purely plays to collect slams. It's quite obvious he doesn't really enjoy tennis much anymore, with his constant angry outbursts and whining on the court, even at his own team.



He also knows that he isn't half as loved as Fedal, and honestly reviled by a majority of the tennis fanbase to the point where underdogs get as much support as him. He needs a very very clear lead in all metrics ( which tbf he's trending towards) for people to forcibly admit that he's the GOAT even after retirement. He knows the way it currently stands most fans will never accept him as Goat, so he needs to force their hand with vulturing as many 250 draw level Grand Slams he can.
This level of delusion is something else! Congrats, I guess?
 
#21 · (Edited)
There really is no comparison at all here. If you look into it further Magnus is mainly quitting championship chess because classical chess without short time controls is very boring to watch, and tedious and draining to play. If they were to switch to a rapid or blitz format I imagine he would be more interested. He also has mentioned how chess has changed with computers and chess engines. There really isn't an equal comparison in tennis, either in terms of the standard format being stale, or in terms of some dramatic paradigm shift.

At best, only a very big stretch of "nothing left to prove"
 
#26 ·
There really is no comparison at all here. If you look into it further Magnus is mainly quitting championship chess because classical chess without time controls is very boring to watch, and tedious and draining to play. If they were to switch to a rapid or blitz format I imagine he would be more interested. He also has mentioned how chess has changed with computers and chess engines. There really isn't an equal comparison in tennis, either in terms of the standard format being stale, or in terms of some dramatic paradigm shift.

At best, only a very big stretch of "nothing left to prove"
Wait, I thought pro chess do have timers?
 
#32 ·
To give context, Carlsen has once stated that he doesn't like classical chess (i.e. "long" chess), despite doing well at it. It is physically and mentally exhausting to prepare for and play hours of chess for one match day after day. You can spend 20 minutes or more planning a single move, then have to wait for your opponent to do the same. Generally there are fewer mistakes and more draws, with small margins deciding winners. The rapid, blitz and bullet chess formats can finish games much faster.

One of his 2021 matches took over 7 hrs to complete.


Magnus would also prefer more diverse opposition.
 
#33 ·
This narrative that Nole might get bored (just like Carlsen did) or doesn‘t find motivation anymore (like Carlsen did too) is way too widespread here.

It might happen, when he has 30 slams one day, but until then, his life is too sweet to give up and retire. He also needs to mill these years, where he is basically a titan with all of his experience and where slam wins finally come easy for him and he doesn‘t need to wrestle Nadal on clay and similar stuff.
 
#34 ·
You can playing chess till you are 80, so Magnus Carlson can be worldchampion when he is 80 as well.

Djokovic has only a few good productive years left, so he must do it now before father time has got him.

So no of course Djoko should not take a break, he can win 30 GS if he does not do that now then he is too late.

Thats a other situation with Carlson, who can take a few years break and then win again and again.
 
#35 · (Edited)
You can playing chess till you are 80, so Magnus Carlson can be worldchampion when he is 80 as well.
World champion probably not. There is also a retirement age for the best chess players, as the brain performance declines after some point.

Apparently, the oldest world champion so far has been 58yo, and the oldest player to beat a world champion was 67yo, and that was already a long time ago (1894 and 1936).



 
#39 ·
OP invested all afternoon to produce what can only be described as an elaborate shitpost.
 
#41 ·
I don't quite see why djokovic would do this. At this point he's basically only playing for slams. And who can blame him when he can win as much in his mid 30s as he could in all of his 20s. He'll only call it a day when he's being routined by 3 or 4 players on a regular basis. And that ain't happening anytime soon looking at the current top 10.
 
#57 ·
There seems to be a growing trend for some Federer and Nadal fans to say "should Novak retire on top and give up now". Probably out of fear as to the amount that he might eb able to add to his career in the next 2-3 years. Not happening. If anything the rise of Carlos has given him a new challenge and motivates him to keep it up. And unlike Nadal, Carlos actually plays his hardest to play Djokovic anytime anywhere. It must be demoralizing to see Nadal lose everywhere else while you are still playing but then peak on clay on his pet surface.

I suspect we will see more and more of these cries every time he wins a slam. And it should be glorious.