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@BMT360 @MWW thoughts? If you dont agree then im definitely wrong ?‍♂
 

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Then Kokk is a bigger success than both, no? :p
It's tragic Nishikori's career has been plagued by injuries. Great player at his best. Peak level is debatable, too. But in terms of achievements Thiem obviously surpassed him this year.
Thiem has the better results at this point. Madrid 2014 killed Nishikori's career.
 

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Thiem has the better results at this point. Madrid 2014 killed Nishikori's career.
Now come out as Keitard and this matter can be considered settled. :p

Christ, words won't describe how much I hate these smilies...
 

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Fair..your comments suggest otherwise but thiem has stayed injury free. I feel Kei has been better as of now..id be amazed if stayed that way but certainly not much in it. Both really nice guys
Then Kokk is a bigger success than both, no? :p
It's tragic Nishikori's career has been plagued by injuries. Great player at his best. Peak level is debatable, too. But in terms of achievements Thiem obviously surpassed him this year.
not sure what much else to say. I do believe Kei is the better overall player (at least off the dirt) and I find him to be a lot more efficient player in terms of pt construction, but Thiem's achievements have surpassed him without question, and he should be congratulated for that.

Kei has been unfortunate with his injuries that have derailed his ability to put out his best, and he's had to work uphill on every moment. US Open his best slam he gets crappy draws every time, has to face at least two top 4 players to get through in any case, including Wawrinka and Djokovic x 2 in semis. Nadal gets a Berrettini, hobbling Del Potro and Youzhny for some of his semis. It does bug me he hasn't had his one moment in the sun, when much lesser players like Sock, even Khachanov have had theirs (as someone else has said, Madrid 2014 should have been his), but what can I do about that?

Nishikori is one reason that fans of players should simply have respect of the game and not think too hard about overall achievements. I do get upset sometimes when I see Fedalovic fans squabbling about GOAT status, rigged draws, and hypotheticals, when they've already had all the time in the sun and their players always recover no matter what. Rafa can miss several months of HC and they claim the clay season like nothing ever happened. Federer can have knee surgery and win a slam right off the bat. (Part of me finds this unfair). Considering Kei was originally called Project 45 (meaning they only wanted him to exceed this ranking), and made it to the top 8 without a very solid serve and with numerous injuries, I suppose he has somewhat overachieved in a sense. So people should be more appreciative of what players bring to the game instead of being arrogant twats, because you never know when it will be over. Indeed, Kei has recently said in an interview that his retirement may not be far away. It will hurt me a lot when he does go.
 

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I do get upset sometimes when I see Fedalovic fans squabbling about GOAT status, rigged draws, and hypotheticals
That is why they (most of them) are Fedalovic fans. The point is to gloryhunt, not the actual player. This can be seen in how they immediately give up on "their" favorite player whenever he fails, mocking 40-15 or Djokovic's loss of year end #1 to Murray (didn't Boss start hating on Djoko at that point?), etc.
 

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To be fair they have been at the shadow of the big 3 + Murray Wawa and Delpo . Doesn't excuse them though . They were not capable of taking advantage of their aging . Still is too much to compete with . Now with injuries and the next gen , it's gonna be difficult
 

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Independent of how you want to define Lost Generation or Generation Useless, I don't think anyone born between 1989 and 1994 except for Thiem is likely to ever win a slam. NextGen is already clearly ahead of them and will only get stronger in the next few years.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
That's a reasonable opinion. But I'm still not ready to write off Dimitrov. He's got about a year and a half where it's still plausible for him. I think Kei is done. Kei's issues have been with his QFs not with his SFs. Kei is the only player who is playing even roughly on par with the best players of other weak generations, but he's still some 8 titles behind Kafelnikov and about 200 wins. The bright spot is that he might match Haas for victories in the slams but we shall see.

Thiem has a long way to go to prove that Generation useless isn't historically bad. I won't sound the alarm bells about 'could they go slamless'? or "Will they never reach number one", unless one of two things happen.

1, Next Gen surpasses them in slam finals. (Currently 4:1).
2. Next Gen actually breaks through and wins a slam.
3. Next Gen consistently supercedes Thiem in rankings.

Odds are still very much in favor for Generation useless to not win just one slam, but multiple slams. It's really, really hard for that span of time (5 years) to go entirely slamless. Even for four, (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992), It's still more likely than not that they win one. I'd put the median at around 1.5. If Dimitrov doesn't do anything this year, that will be the first time that we're more likely than not to see a new record in terms of slam droughts over a particular number of years. (current record is 3).

Right now I'd price the median at around 4 slams. 3 for Thiem and 1 for someone else. That would still rank Generation useless ahead of the second-worst set of 5 years, but well behind the worst for 6. So while this is already a historically weak era, it depends on how you define it, whether it is the absolute worst.
 

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Odds are still very much in favor for Generation useless to not win just one slam, but multiple slams. It's really, really hard for that span of time (5 years) to go entirely slamless. Even for four, (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992), It's still more likely than not that they win one. I'd put the median at around 1.5.
No, they are not. While a priori probability of a 4-5 years drought is very low it's much higher now considering that those guys will be 28-31 yo next year. I'm talking about 1989-1992 gen obviously, it's likely they will not win a slam. I'm not counting Thiem: he's born in 1993 and is likely to win a slam given his clay strength and HC improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
No, they are not. While a priori probability of a 4-5 years drought is very low it's much higher now considering that those guys will be 28-31 yo next year. I'm talking about 1989-1992 gen obviously, it's likely they will not win a slam. I'm not counting Thiem: he's born in 1993 and is likely to win a slam given his clay strength and HC improvement.
5 year drought includes Thiem. 3 years has happened before, 4 has not. I would agree with you if none of the 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 players win a slam this year. Dimitrov's odds drop off precipitously as he gets older.

He already has long odds (being in the top 20, not the top 10). This year is really make or break for him. We'll see at the start just how much he's willing to do to 'get there'.
 

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5 year drought includes Thiem. 3 years has happened before, 4 has not. I would agree with you if none of the 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 players win a slam this year. Dimitrov's odds drop off precipitously as he gets older.

He already has long odds (being in the top 20, not the top 10). This year is really make or break for him. We'll see at the start just how much he's willing to do to 'get there'.
You've been saying this stuff for so long and GU is still not doing anything in slams. Dimitrov's best recent result was AO17 SF, where he took Rafa to five but still lost. F would have been against Federer - a sure loss there. What is the rationale for him winning a slam aside from "well...GU MUST finally win a slam...right? right?". I won't even mention Kei or Rao which have pretty much zero combined chance. Same with Goffin, Busta, etc obviously.

Since you chose to include Thiem, that is the only way your thesis could be saved - since he's been knocking on RG's door for a few years. However until Rafa goes down there, it's still speculation.
 

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You've been saying this stuff for so long and GU is still not doing anything in slams. Dimitrov's best recent result was AO17 SF, where he took Rafa to five but still lost. F would have been against Federer - a sure loss there. What is the rationale for him winning a slam aside from "well...GU MUST finally win a slam...right? right?". I won't even mention Kei or Rao which have pretty much zero combined chance. Same with Goffin, Busta, etc obviously.

Since you chose to include Thiem, that is the only way your thesis could be saved - since he's been knocking on RG's door for a few years. However until Rafa goes down there, it's still speculation.
WOW, the best recent result was USO2019 SF, defeating Federer in quaters. In fact Grigor has semis in all the slams except RG. The high bounce is too much for his backhand but who knaws...
 

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Kei is still some 8 titles behind Kafelnikov and about 200 wins. The bright spot is that he might match Haas for victories in the slams but we shall see.
Only you cares about these useless stats (since you enjoy the word useless).
 

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WOW, the best recent result was USO2019 SF, defeating Federer in quaters. In fact Grigor has semis in all the slams except RG. The high bounce is too much for his backhand but who knaws...
But he went down in 3 to Medvedev - not sure you want to hail that as the best result. Regardless, Rafa would have taken him to school in the final.
 

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But he went down in 3 to Medvedev - not sure you want to hail that as the best result. Regardless, Rafa would have taken him to school in the final.
One thing I know, Grigor always give his best in this matches. You can see the results in AO2014 quaters, AO2017 semis, Wimby2014 semis.He played very well even in the match against Medvedev.
 

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I was hoping Kei, Milos and Grigor would do much better honestly, they have nice gamestyles that are varied amongst themselves, there was potential for interesting rivalries at the top.
 

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The problem is this generation is too nice, not arrogant and unapologetic like the next genners. They were very unfortunate to play in the prime of the Big4. And it's very possible they will retire before them.
 

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I was hoping Kei, Milos and Grigor would do much better honestly, they have nice gamestyles that are varied amongst themselves, there was potential for interesting rivalries at the top.
I started watching tennis in 2014 and the narrative among commentators was that the change of the guard by those three is just around the corner. I actually believed that at least in regards to Kei, whose game was really impressive to me. Of course, then the dreaded Madrid 2014 final came and the whole thing didn't pan out the way it should have. Turns out, 2014 was the peak for all 3 with one or two small spells after that.


One thing I know, Grigor always give his best in this matches. You can see the results in AO2014 quaters, AO2017 semis, Wimby2014 semis.He played very well even in the match against Medvedev.
He does. Unfortunately, he always just falls short of what's required. The curse of GU...
 

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Generstion useless is heading into Grandpa land soon. Yes they are not yet 30, but it for sure isnt 2014, when the world seemed to be their oyster.

It's crazy to say that.
 

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One thing I know, Grigor always give his best in this matches. You can see the results in AO2014 quaters, AO2017 semis, Wimby2014 semis.He played very well even in the match against Medvedev.
That match with Medvedev was actually not that great. Though he had a good moments, he wasted his opportunities, and didn't capitalize on a tired Meddy and one who was serving at a meager 47% the whole match. Not taking a set against that Medvedev is a big chance wasted.
 
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