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Discussion starter · #41 ·
Yeah, I think the Djokovic fans are going to have to get used to the fact that his lack of Olympic Gold will always be brought up, even as they constantly try to devalue it. You can tell Novak himself knows how important it is. He'll certainly be there to try again in 2024. However, he is much easier to beat in Best of 3, and his fans may have to cope with the fact that he may not ever win Olympic Gold. It would be the one hole in his resume.
Well they get very defensive about the Olympics whenever it's brought up. More so than the Slam h2h which favours Nadal as well. Like you say it is the thing that in the event of a tie would really hurt Djokovic which is why Nadal I think would live with a tie easier than Djokovic would.
 
I doubt Nadal and Djokovic will be in same half if its 22-22. Roland Garros will want that the final. And Nadal could well be back in top 4 as I think he has no points to defend in MC Barcelona Madrid or Rome so he could get about 3000 points back. Is that right? If he won say MC Barcelona and Rome that's 2500 points so in Madrid would only need to make semis to be close to 3000.
Nadal is not going to push himself maximally before RG, IMO, but he could be a seed 5-8.
 
Nadal still has big arguments even at 22-22. His astonishing 21-11 combined slam pigeoning of Djokovic and Federer is hard to overlook. Slam winner will settle GOAT race. Nadal will do absolutely everything in his power to peak for French Open.
Slam H2H is a meaningless stat.
Where’s Nadal now to meet Nole again at the AO?
8/11 of Nadal’s slam victories were at one event.
Yeah that’s a great argument.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Nadal is not going to push himself maximally before RG, IMO.
I agree but he will need some matchplay. I expect him to play MC Barcelona and Rome. I think he will skip Madrid. I agree he won't go full gun though. I don't think Nadal cares where he is ranked on clay as players struggle to get sets off him on clay let alone beat him.
I do think we may see a bit of war of words now between Nadal and Djokovic through their camps. Djokovic surely won't play too much before clay either if at all. No reason to
 
Slam H2H is a meaningless stat.
Where’s Nadal now to meet Nole again at the AO?
8/11 of Nadal’s slam victories were at one event.
Yeah that’s a great argument.
Exactly. You can spot if someone is either 1) very biased in favour of Nadal or 2) unable to engage in critical analysis of data if they try to argue that the "slam h2h" is an argument for Nadal.

The reason why the slam h2h is not a compelling stat is simple: Djokovic regularly made it far enough to face Nadal at RG, where Nadal is undoubtedly superior.

In contrast, more often than not, Nadal did not make it far enough to meet Djokovic at the other three slams - they have only met twice at non-RG slams since 2013, which was the last time Nadal beat Djokovic off clay. I broke it all down a while back, and the ratio is something like 2:1 (in terms of who didn't make it far enough to meet the other player at a non-clay slam).

All of this means the 11-7 is misleading in that Nadal fans like to use that stat to claim that he's superior in the h2h to Djokovic at the "slams" in general. This slam h2h hides the fact that they've met 10 times at Nadal's best slam (and Djokovic's worst slam) - more than at the other three slams combined! In contrast, they've only met twice at Djokovic's best slam.

Anyway, if you look at the overall h2h, it becomes very clear, as we have about as big a sample as you're going to get in a tennis h2h: Nadal has dominated Djokovic on clay to about the same extent that Djokovic has dominated Nadal on hard.

So for any honest tennis fan, the logical conclusion is that if Nadal and Djokovic had faced off against each other in proportion to the surface distribution of the tour/slams, Djokovic would almost certainly lead their h2h quite decisively.

And I say that as someone who is a fan of both players.
 
I agree but he will need some matchplay. I expect him to play MC Barcelona and Rome. I think he will skip Madrid. I agree he won't go full gun though. I don't think Nadal cares where he is ranked on clay as players struggle to get sets off him on clay let alone beat him.
I do think we may see a bit of war of words now between Nadal and Djokovic through their camps. Djokovic surely won't play too much before clay either if at all. No reason to
Nadal will be out of top10 before MC.600 points IW,500 points Mexico.
 
They would both have arguments but can it really be settled if both players are on the same slam count? It reminds me when all big 3 were on 20 and I found it impossible to really know who was GOAT.
If they share the same number of slams it's Djoker. There would be nothing to discuss. From my point of view he is already the best of all time with 21 vs 22.
 
Slam H2H is a meaningless stat.
Where’s Nadal now to meet Nole again at the AO?
8/11 of Nadal’s slam victories were at one event.
Yeah that’s a great argument.
But 3 of them weren't. And 3 is plenty enough. These guys can't even beat an over the hill, injured Djokovic once nevermind 3 times - all in semi finals and beyond as well.

To the other poster that wrote the essay to you response - yeah I fully appreciate that life isn't fair, they should have met more "off clay" on other slams etc - but that still doesn't take away from what Nadal has done. Do you ever see Agassi fans claiming that he should have met Sampras more at Australian Open and French Open? Anyone that thinks the biggest matches at the top of the game is meaningless is having a laugh.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
Top ten is not enough for easier draw you need top 8.
After sunshine double he will be at least n12 maybe even lower
Draws don't matter to Nadal on Chatrier. He went about 5 years not losing a set lol.
There is literally nobody who is remotely close to him on clay of he is healthy . Question is how healthy will he be. Team Djokovic seem to have suggested he is healthy and is basically having a holiday before clay.
I think Nadal will win RG and then the question is will he retire on the spot. There seems alot of rumours that will happen.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
But 3 of them weren't. And 3 is plenty enough. These guys can't even beat an over the hill, injured Djokovic once nevermind 3 times - all in semi finals and beyond as well.

To the other poster that wrote the essay to you response - yeah I fully appreciate that life isn't fair, they should have met more "off clay" on other slams etc - but that still doesn't take away from what Nadal has done. Do you ever see Agassi fans claiming that he should have met Sampras more at Australian Open and French Open? Anyone that thinks the biggest matches at the top of the game is meaningless is having a laugh.
The Djokovic fanbase has perfected the art of mental gymnastics and deflection. Problem is all their arguments actually come back to haunt. Their favourite ones about more meetings off clay is actually false as Nadal and Djokovic have met more off clay than on it lol. At the Majors is 10 on clay 7 off so hardly skewed hugely. But the best is the weak draws stuff at USO. Of course now they will have to try and argue away the djokovic w 2022 and ao 2023 draws. Ultimately they have destroyed their own favourite players achievements in some ways or downgraded them at least.
 
Draws don't matter to Nadal on Chatrier. He went about 5 years not losing a set lol.
There is literally nobody who is remotely close to him on clay of he is healthy . Question is how healthy will he be. Team Djokovic seem to have suggested he is healthy and is basically having a holiday before clay.
I think Nadal will win RG and then the question is will he retire on the spot. There seems alot of rumours that will happen.
Its not playstation he is old and facing tough competition in early rounds is massive.
I am not saying he will lose early,he will be tired in sf,f.
 
Their favourite ones about more meetings off clay is actually false as Nadal and Djokovic have met more off clay than on it lol. At the Majors is 10 on clay 7 off so hardly skewed hugely.
Hardly skewed hugely? They met 10 times at a single clay Major, while they met only 7 times at the other 3 Majors combined. That is definitely skewed hugely.

All that it says is that Nadal is not good enough off-clay to make it far enough into a non-clay Major in order to meet Djokovic.

Djokovic faced Nadal at FO, Nadal's best slam,10 times out of the 18 times that Djokovic actually played FO. Nadal won 8 out of those 10. Well done to Nadal, the undisputed king of FO.

Nadal has only faced Djokovic at AO 2 times out of the 18 times that Nadal actually played FO. Djokovic won both. What do you think the Slam H2H would be if Nadal has played Djokovic at AO 10 times like he did at FO?
 
How can a player be greater than his closest rival if he only won more due to a longer career but while both were active won less of the biggest events and had an inferior h2h at the biggest events? How does that work? It defies logic.
I don't think you want to make this argument. As of now, Nadal has had a longer career than Djokovic due to both being older and maturing earlier. By the time Novak won his first Slam, Nadal has already had 3 to his name. So your boy has won less of the biggest events while both players were active, according to your argument.
 
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