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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Roger/Ali- charismatic genius. Beautiful to watch- like poetry. Loved by all, accepted by the people as the greatest and the champion. Won the world's hearts, regardless if some other competitor's records and/or skills were slightly better


Nadal/Tyson- the most fearsome warrior to ever partake in their sport. A true annihilator. All time alpha Male of their sport. The most frightening prospect to come up against. Could destroy and emasculate any other opponent at their best. Their brutality was beautiful to watch, if not poetic. Probably the opponent you want to play/fight the least

Djokovic/Mayeather- Flawless technicians. Probably the most skilled and unbeatable overall. Can really take apart anyone else's strengths and make them look inept. As close to technically perfect as we've ever seen. Both somewhat defensive in the way they play, and have rough edges in their personality- so not liked by the public as much. But when they execute their inch perfect skills, one has to marvel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
What I am saying here is that either could be described as the GOAT, depending on what criteria you're using.
 

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Excellent parallels, except for Tyson's questionnable stamina - as capnkimo noted -, chin and small peak period. It's a fun topic, 2 years ago I made a similar comparison but at middleweight, between the big 4 and the "fabulous 4", namely Marvin Hagler, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran. Here were my thoughts (originally here) :

My two cents on the similarities between the Big Four and the Fabulous Four (stylistically only, and no, I'm not talking of some unknown pop music band of the 60's) :



So 1st, Federer is Tommy Hearns : unparalleled two-punch KO power, great offensive first-strike style, can strike from any position). People question his stamina and his chin, but man, he got toe-to-toe with Leonard almost to the limit in their two bouts, and should have won the last one.

Nadal is Hagler : very muscular, wild raw power and durability, able to absorb any kind of punch, iron chin, versatile, both are right-handed but learned to be southpaw, also defeated Hearns/Fed once in a brutal fashion, after having absorbed in the first round some unreal blows that would have knocked out the rest of the world. Very hard worker, won his titles and his legitimity the hard way, the Philly way.

Djoko should be Ray Leonard : mainly defensive, incredible flexibility and reflexes but wanted to goes toe to toe with the bigger guys and ultimately was able to defeat them, even if has waited them to decline to overcome them. Also Leonard beat Hagler (well, not everyone agree) in the end, the same way Djokovic finally reversed his H2H against both past their prime Federer and Nadal. On a sidenote : both would love to be loved.

Murray, well, is Roberto Duran. The fourth guy - but in fact when you looked to what Duran accomplished as a Lighweight, he's a legend of his own -, a relentless warrior, while not as gifted as the other 3. Far better worh ethic for Murray than Duran it has to be said :)

Not a very accurate comparison, only for the fun. And while I'm a big Fed fan, Hagler is one of my all-timefavorite boxer - hence my avatar -, so...

A last word regarding Mayweather "unbeatableness" : not questionning his greatness, it has to be said he never had to box someone of Leonard's, Hears' or even Duran's caliber. Yes, even de la Hoya or Pacquaio aren't in the same league, in my mind, and they were very much past their prime when Floyd meet them.
 

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What I am saying here is that either could be described as the GOAT, depending on what criteria you're using.
This comparison simply doesn't work, on so many levels.

As for Mike Tyson, he could never be described as the greatest. His best two wins are a past it Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This comparison simply doesn't work, on so many levels.

As for Mike Tyson, he could never be described as the greatest. His best two wins are a past it Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. ?
In my opinion that is comparable to some of Rafa's grand slam results outside clay.

When he won the US Open in 2017 and 2019 he fought/played mostly bums!
 

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This comparison simply doesn't work, on so many levels.

As for Mike Tyson, he could never be described as the greatest. His best two wins are a past it Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. ?
I disagree. Of course there are a ton of differences, but nevertheless some good parallels too. The fear factor, both Nadal & Tyson impressive early bloomers, mature far before turning 20. Defeating and sometimes humiliating former legends (as Nadal did to the old claycourters while being himself a teenager)... Lowering Tyson's opposition is like presenting Federer's 03-07 as a "weak era", he made them look bad, but they obviously weren't.

Regarding Holmes & Spinks, there is nothing to laugh about : Holmes, even if far pas his prime and unretiring for the occasion, had never been knocked out. He was by Tyson in the 4th round. Spinks was one of, if the the greatest light heavyweight of all time, big, very technical, undefeated at that time. But 1988 was for Tyson what 2008 was for Nadal.

But again, for me there is more parallels to draw elsewhere than at heavyweight. Fab 4 at superwelter/middlweight, and @Lightweight, that would be Alexis Arguello as Federer, Aaron Pryor as Nadal, and Pernell "sweat pea" Whitaker as Djokovic. Whitaker, who passed away recently, was the best defender of all time, better than Mayweather in my opinion. You can witness his untouchability here :
 

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Tyson was a softie, at heart.

When the going got tough, he got worse.

But the other 2 are pretty nice. Especially Floyd/Djokovic, strengths/style wise.
 

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In my opinion that is comparable to some of Rafa's grand slam results outside clay.

When he won the US Open in 2017 and 2019 he fought/played mostly bums!
Epic fail
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tyson was a softie, at heart.

When the going got tough, he got worse.

But the other 2 are pretty nice. Especially Floyd/Djokovic, strengths/style wise.
FWIW I think Nadal is far better than Tyson. He had a much longer peak.

But Tyson's fall I think was more attributable to his personal problems, and the fact that his beloved trainer/mentor Cus D'Amato died

Dude went to jail for 3 years, had drug problems, was exploited by Don King and others, and was never the same fighter.

Nadal is basically what you get when you take the same fiery, warrior's personality, and give him a perfect family structure, upbringing and mentorship.

Can't help but think that if Tyson had the same, he could have had a much longer reign at the top.
 

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I disagree. Of course there are a ton of differences, but nevertheless some good parallels too. The fear factor, both Nadal & Tyson impressive early bloomers, mature far before turning 20. Defeating and sometimes humiliating former legends (as Nadal did to the old claycourters while being himself a teenager)... Lowering Tyson's opposition is like presenting Federer's 03-07 as a "weak era", he made them look bad, but they obviously weren't.

Regarding Holmes & Spinks, there is nothing to laugh about : Holmes, even if far pas his prime and unretiring for the occasion, had never been knocked out. He was by Tyson in the 4th round. Spinks was one of, if the the greatest light heavyweight of all time, big, very technical, undefeated at that time. But 1988 was for Tyson what 2008 was for Nadal.

But again, for me there is more parallels to draw elsewhere than at heavyweight. Fab 4 at superwelter/middlweight, and @Lightweight, that would be Alexis Arguello as Federer, Aaron Pryor as Nadal, and Pernell "sweat pea" Whitaker as Djokovic. Whitaker, who passed away recently, was the best defender of all time, better than Mayweather in my opinion. You can witness his untouchability here :
I'm not saying that his wins of Holmes and Spinks were terrible wins. I'm saying that they pitiful for someone who the OP has described as a potential greatest. Tyson is a top 20 heavyweight and nothing more, with such a resume.

Look at Vitali Klitschko, who fought weak opposition, but he did so in such a way that he only lost 7 rounds in his entire career and was never floored. Tyson, on the other hand, got battered from pillar to post by Douglas. He went in to the Holyfield fight as a heavy favourite, with almost everybody writing Holyfield off as past it, after having wars with Bowe x 3, Bert Cooper, Moorer, Mercer and didn't look great at all against Bobby Czyz. The odds were ridiculous. He then got beaten from pillar to post and then in the rematch, when he realised he couldn't beat this guy, he found a way to quit.

He was then spanked by Lewis, who was older than him at the time, but not as far out of his prime, clearly.

The only thing I can see that is comparable with Rafael Nadal is that he and his fanbase are full of absurd excuses for every defeat.

Comparing boxers to tennis players is completely stupid, as the sports are governed and contested completely differently.
 

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I disagree. Of course there are a ton of differences, but nevertheless some good parallels too. The fear factor, both Nadal & Tyson impressive early bloomers, mature far before turning 20. Defeating and sometimes humiliating former legends (as Nadal did to the old claycourters while being himself a teenager)... Lowering Tyson's opposition is like presenting Federer's 03-07 as a "weak era", he made them look bad, but they obviously weren't.

Regarding Holmes & Spinks, there is nothing to laugh about : Holmes, even if far pas his prime and unretiring for the occasion, had never been knocked out. He was by Tyson in the 4th round. Spinks was one of, if the the greatest light heavyweight of all time, big, very technical, undefeated at that time. But 1988 was for Tyson what 2008 was for Nadal.

But again, for me there is more parallels to draw elsewhere than at heavyweight. Fab 4 at superwelter/middlweight, and @Lightweight, that would be Alexis Arguello as Federer, Aaron Pryor as Nadal, and Pernell "sweat pea" Whitaker as Djokovic. Whitaker, who passed away recently, was the best defender of all time, better than Mayweather in my opinion. You can witness his untouchability here :
o rly? that obvious huh?

News to me
 

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Fed's prime Lomachenko , and his coach tyson fury ok I liked your comparison here we go with another one:
Novak = Khabib
Nadal = Ferguson
Roger = Mcgregor
 

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o rly? that obvious huh?

News to me
Sorry, didn't get your sarcasm, you got too subtle for me.

Tyson is a top 20 heavyweight and nothing more, with such a resume.
Yes, undeniably. But Tyson lost a lot of footspeed and work ethic, thus stamina after his downfall. Nonetheless at 20, he was feared as much as you can. This is where the comparison can be made. But ok to write him off the HW GOAT conversation

Comparing boxers to tennis players is completely stupid, as the sports are governed and contested completely differently.
On that, I can't disagree more. Tennis and boxing share many aspects : truely individual sports, long-term history, many discussions about goatness, many fantasy/dream bouts debates. They drag very comparable fantast and stories from their fanbases.
 

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Sorry, didn't get your sarcasm, you got too subtle for me.


Yes, undeniably. But Tyson lost a lot of footspeed and work ethic, thus stamina after his downfall. Nonetheless at 20, he was feared as much as you can. This is where the comparison can be made. But ok to write him off the HW GOAT conversation



On that, I can't disagree more. Tennis and boxing share many aspects : truely individual sports, long-term history, many discussions about goatness, many fantasy/dream bouts debates. They drag very comparable fantast and stories from their fanbases.
There are many individual sports which have long-term history, that have discussions regarding greatness and fantasy match-ups.

Boxing and tennis are governed completely differently, of that there is no debate. Therefore, comparing greatness of one player of one sport, to the other, is particularly pointless.

Judging greatness of tennis players is the stuff of fools, because you cannot compare eras. To compare across very different sports, is the height of tomfoolery.
 

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Tyson is barely scraping top 10 heavyweight of all time status. Nobody knowledgeable puts him anywhere near GOAT. Sorry.
 

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Judging greatness of tennis players is the stuff of fools, because you cannot compare eras. To compare across very different sports, is the height of tomfoolery.
The point of this thread, from what I got, wasn't to compare greatness of different sportmen, eg who's the greater between Nadal & Ali. It was more about drawing some interesting parallels. No science involved, no objectivity pursued, only throwing a PoV and also making a point on how naming someone a Goat in a sport is a very relative thing.

Tyson is barely scraping top 10 heavyweight of all time status. Nobody knowledgeable puts him anywhere near GOAT. Sorry.
Seems everybody agree on that. But that wasn't the point of the OP.

I think you can view this thread as something like the "Tennis lookalikes" one, but restricted to tennis and boxing skills and for both tennis & boxing fans. Thus I respond with other similarities I could find on topic, as a fan of both sports.
 

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Seems everybody agree on that. But that wasn't the point of the OP.

I think you can view this thread as something like the "Tennis lookalikes" one, but restricted to tennis and boxing skills and for both tennis & boxing fans. Thus I respond with other similarities I could find on topic, as a fan of both sports.
Fair enough. I was pretty big into boxing from 2007 - 2016, but not any more. Off the top of my head, some pretty good lookalikes would be:
Federer - Lomachenko
Nadal - GGG
Djokovic - Floyd
Wawrinka - Pacquiao
Murray - Hopkins
 
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