Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Your visions will happen
Joined
·
47,128 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Back in the old days, pre 1973, before the computer rankings, this would happen all the time.

World #1 ranking was more based on journalists, etc. There was no computer. Usually whoever won Wimbledon ended up #1, but as time went on, and the slams emerged, they began to gain weight. It would be nothing in those days for a Slam final to exchange World #1 ranking.

Nowadays, though, due to the computer ranking, this is rarely the case. Nadal did not get #1 until several weeks after USO 2013, Djokovic in 2011, the Wimbledon final, Djokovic had already clinched the #1 with the SF win over Tsonga. When Fed got back to #1 after winning Wimbldeon 2009, he did not play Nadal in the final. In 08, when Nadal won over Fed, he did not get the computer ranking until several weeks later, after winning the Olympics.

And so on. So this is a rare occurence here we are witnessing. Hopefully both make it.

Math:

Current:

Nadal- 12,500
Djokovic- 11,850

With RG points taken off, 2000 for Nadal, 720 for Nole

Nadal- 10,500
Djokovic- 11,130

With 1200 points added on, RG final points should both make it

Nadal- 11,700
Djokovic- 12,330

Should Djokovic win RG:

Djokovic- 13,130
Nadal- 11,700

Should Nadal win RG:

Nadal- 12,500
Djokovic- 12,330

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

·
Bunned!
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
Even with 0 slams, Nole would only be 170 points behind Rafa. Ridiculous. But it wouldn't be a shocker to see Nadal get it back right after Wimbledon. Any improvement there will bring points while Nole is defending finalist points. It will probably be back and forth for the rest of the year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,311 Posts
It's more than that. If Nole beats Rafa at the French, it completes Rafa's fall from #1. He is no longer safe on his best surface if that happens. But we are going to see what going to happen. I think Rafa wins FO without facing Nole this year.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
Djokovic is not winning RG I already predicted it. He is getting roasted before finals against wawa/fed in SF or nishikori/giraldo on earlies rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
734 Posts
You should open a thread for predictions on the ATP website headline if this happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,667 Posts
I don't want to see either player in the final.
Neither do I.

Rather have the Real World No. 1 Wawrinka against France's hope Tsonga in the final. That'd be epic.
 

·
Rankings Master
Joined
·
15,649 Posts
NOT EXACTLY! The Roland Garros final does not decide it all. It's much more easier than that.

If Nadal wins RG, Nadal keeps #1.

A scenario with Nadal winner and Nole finalist:
Nadal: 12500
Nole: 12330.

If Nadal doesn't win Roland Garros and Nole defends his semifinal points from last year, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nole semifinalist and Nadal finalist:
Nadal: 11700
Nole: 11850.

If Nadal doesn't reach the final and Nole gets past Round 3, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nadal SF and Nole R4:
Nadal: 11220.
Nole: 11310.
Interesting to note here, that if Nadal is SF and Nole R3, the two have 11220 each, with Nadal edging the #1 by 5 more GS and MS points.

If Nadal doesn't reach the semifinal, Nadal loses #1.

Scenario with Nadal QF and Nole R1:
Nadal: 10860.
Nole: 11140.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,560 Posts
NOT EXACTLY! The Roland Garros final does not decide it all. It's much more easier than that.
I think you missed Groove's point. Given that these two make it to the final, the winner decides the #1. All the other scenarios are not considered in this case as he was mentioning only a Rafole final and they both not losing before that.

Anyway, those scenarios are also interesting. After the Big 4 domination, Djokovic could be #1 without a slam for the first time.
 

·
Rankings Master
Joined
·
15,649 Posts
I think you missed Groove's point. Given that these two make it to the final, the winner decides the #1. All the other scenarios are not considered in this case as he was mentioning only a Rafole final and they both not losing before that.

Anyway, those scenarios are also interesting. After the Big 4 domination, Djokovic could be #1 without a slam for the first time.
Yeah, I got his point, was trying to show that the final is not needed to decide the #1. Indeed, if we get there, the winner gets the #1. Fact is though that Nadal will have to work much harder than Nole if he wants to keep his #1. From the start he is forced to win 5 matches, if he fails, Nole's #1 without needing to win any match. If Nole wins 5 matches, Nadal must win a 6th. If Nole wins 6 matches, Nadal must win a 7th. It's all on Nadal until the final (the pressure). If both find themselves there, than it's anyone's game. Could be the most interesting RG final in recent times. But could be is not will be. So, as Johnny would say, we gonna see what's going on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,560 Posts
Yeah, I got his point, was trying to show that the final is not needed to decide the #1. Indeed, if we get there, the winner gets the #1. Fact is though that Nadal will have to work much harder than Nole if he wants to keep his #1. From the start he is forced to win 5 matches, if he fails, Nole's #1 without needing to win any match. If Nole wins 5 matches, Nadal must win a 6th. If Nole wins 6 matches, Nadal must win a 7th. It's all on Nadal until the final (the pressure). If both find themselves there, than it's anyone's game. Could be the most interesting RG final in recent times. But could be is not will be. So, as Johnny would say, we gonna see what's going on.
This is beautiful. What a race. I wish the quality extends to help this race. I can sense the drama already.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
23,063 Posts
NOT EXACTLY! The Roland Garros final does not decide it all. It's much more easier than that.

If Nadal wins RG, Nadal keeps #1.

A scenario with Nadal winner and Nole finalist:
Nadal: 12500
Nole: 12330.

If Nadal doesn't win Roland Garros and Nole defends his semifinal points from last year, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nole semifinalist and Nadal finalist:
Nadal: 11700
Nole: 11850.

If Nadal doesn't reach the final and Nole gets past Round 3, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nadal SF and Nole R4:
Nadal: 11220.
Nole: 11310.
Interesting to note here, that if Nadal is SF and Nole R3, the two have 11220 each, with Nadal edging the #1 by 5 more GS and MS points.

If Nadal doesn't reach the semifinal, Nadal loses #1.

Scenario with Nadal QF and Nole R1:
Nadal: 10860.
Nole: 11140.
That would be so awesome! :eek: Only 5 points? That is like the minimum points of one match in an ATP 250 or something like that?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
I am afraid Novak will choke again.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
I don't want to see either player in the final.
Why?
This is the match tennis fans around the world are waiting for!
The two best players in this planet playing against each others without the Frauderer and Mugray vulture!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
NOT EXACTLY! The Roland Garros final does not decide it all. It's much more easier than that.

If Nadal wins RG, Nadal keeps #1.

A scenario with Nadal winner and Nole finalist:
Nadal: 12500
Nole: 12330.

If Nadal doesn't win Roland Garros and Nole defends his semifinal points from last year, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nole semifinalist and Nadal finalist:
Nadal: 11700
Nole: 11850.

If Nadal doesn't reach the final and Nole gets past Round 3, Nadal loses #1.

A scenario with Nadal SF and Nole R4:
Nadal: 11220.
Nole: 11310.
Interesting to note here, that if Nadal is SF and Nole R3, the two have 11220 each, with Nadal edging the #1 by 5 more GS and MS points.

If Nadal doesn't reach the semifinal, Nadal loses #1.

Scenario with Nadal QF and Nole R1:
Nadal: 10860.
Nole: 11140.
Awesome stuff.:worship: Cant wait for RG :)
 

·
Rankings Master
Joined
·
15,649 Posts
That would be so awesome! :eek: Only 5 points? That is like the minimum points of one match in an ATP 250 or something like that?
The most epic scenario of them all (a first in the Open Era). Top 2 players tie at 11220 points.

First, the rule:

E. Ties. When two or more players have the same total number of points, ties shall be
broken as follows:
1) the most total points from the Grand Slams, ATP World Tour Masters 1000 mandatory
tournaments and Barclays ATP World Tour Finals main draws, and if still
tied, then,
Nadal's tiebreaker points (GS+MS+WTF):
10 (Wimbledon 2013)
1000 (Canada 2013)
1000 (Cincinnati 2013)
2000 (US Open 2013)
360 (Shanghai 2013)
360 (Paris 2013)
1000 (WTF 2013)
1200 (AO 2014)
45 (IW 2014)
600 (Miami 2014)
1000 (Madrid 2014)
600 (Rome 2014)
720 (RG 2014)
TOTAL:
9895


Nole's tiebreaker points (GS+MS+WTF):
1200 (Wimbledon 2013)
360 (Canada 2013)
180 (Cincinnati 2013)
1200 (US Open 2013)
1000 (Shanghai 2013)
1000 (Paris 2013)
1500 (WTF 2013)
360 (AO 2014)
1000 (IW 2014)
1000 (Miami 2014)
0 (Madrid 2014)
1000 (Rome 2014)
90 (RG 2014)
TOTAL:
9890
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,156 Posts
Nole to win RG and regain his #1 would be too good to be true
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
23,063 Posts
The most epic scenario of them all (a first in the Open Era). Top 2 players tie at 11220 points.

First, the rule:



Nadal's tiebreaker points (GS+MS+WTF):
10 (Wimbledon 2013)
1000 (Canada 2013)
1000 (Cincinnati 2013)
2000 (US Open 2013)
360 (Shanghai 2013)
360 (Paris 2013)
1000 (WTF 2013)
1200 (AO 2014)
45 (IW 2014)
600 (Miami 2014)
1000 (Madrid 2014)
600 (Rome 2014)
720 (RG 2014)
TOTAL:
9895


Nole's tiebreaker points (GS+MS+WTF):
1200 (Wimbledon 2013)
360 (Canada 2013)
180 (Cincinnati 2013)
1200 (US Open 2013)
1000 (Shanghai 2013)
1000 (Paris 2013)
1500 (WTF 2013)
360 (AO 2014)
1000 (IW 2014)
1000 (Miami 2014)
0 (Madrid 2014)
1000 (Rome 2014)
90 (RG 2014)
TOTAL:
9890
That is crazy good stuff. Makes every upset and tight matches that important. That said, I doubt Djokovic would be eliminated by someone outside of the Top 16, with his consistency. Wonder who is the most threatening in the other rankings to make such a R32 upset on Clay? Nadal exiting on SF seems more feasible.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top