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I would not want to fight with Djok fans over "who's better" at this point--I think it's pretty damn even and only once they've both retired can anyone say. And it still may be too close to say.
 

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Only one with 2 slams on each surface. The true all surface king

Plus Olympics Gold Medal
So we have Djokovic dominating Nadal for almost a decade, we have Nadal with 0 WTFs, but we also have Nadal with slam advantage and unique achievements - especially the greatest and the hardest event won (Olympics).

So who has the definite advantage? It's still hard to say. They are not known as the Big 2 for nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Djokovic's fans are ashamed of half of Djokovic's career, and want all those years erased.
And even after erasing every year prior to 2011, they have to deal with Rafa winning year-end-#1 in 2017 and 2019 and more US Opens and French Opens....
 

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Djokovic's fans are ashamed of half of Djokovic's career, and want all those years erased.
And even after erasing every year prior to 2011, they have to deal with Rafa winning year-end-#1 in 2017 and 2019 and more US Opens and French Opens....
H2H: 29:26
Weeks at #1?
Nole Slam (aka ALL SLAMS in a row)?
WTFs?
Career Masters?
ETC ...

Novak OWNS Nadal. Nadal is Novak's pigeon. Nadal knows it and is ok with it. Look at my signature.

P.S. Novak fans prop-up Nadal just to irk Federer's Cult... Don't let that get into your head.
 

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They are not known as the Big 2 for nothing at all!
True that. There's only Big 1.
It's good for biz that we create "big 2", "big3", "big 4" (yeah, remember how we tried to make that work)... But in all honesty - there's only BIG 1. Novak Djokovic.
 
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Djokovic's fans are ashamed of half of Djokovic's career, and want all those years erased.
And even after erasing every year prior to 2011, they have to deal with Rafa winning year-end-#1 in 2017 and 2019 and more US Opens and French Opens....
Unfortunately, “ashamed” doesn’t quite describe it, disappointment is more like it, esp. missing USO17 where opportunity to face 0 top 20 competition thru the finals missed to equalise w/ the true Claybot or USO18, escaping showdown w/ Serbinator after retiring in SF.
 

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Novak fans smokes a lot of good stuff around here.
Yeah... Only the good stuff... The best stuff... The GOAT stuff baby.
It's just how we roll.
 

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True that. There's only Big 1.
It's good for biz that we create "big 2", "big3", "big 4" (yeah, remember how we tried to make that work)... But in all honesty - there's only BIG 1. Novak Djokovic.
It's one thing supporting a professional athlete, but when you're willing to completely deny reality in the pursuit of that, I don't know how to describe it other than quite worrying.
 

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I see that many refer to their h2h. GS matches are highlighted as extra important. but at the same time it is forgotten to mention the whole picture as, for example, final matches.

Grand Slam finals: Tied, 4–4
All finals: Djokovic, 15–11

it is emphasized nadals 9-6 h2h in slams but it is not mentioned that almost half or as many as 7 of their 15 GS matches were in RG. that's a whopping 47%! instead of 25%. it is twice as frequent as expected. on the other hand only 2 matches (13%, only half than expected) were on noles favorite slam, AO.

if we look further and analyze their h2h, we see that it is strongly skewed to clay andvantage. of the 14 biggest tournaments 4 (29%) are on clay, 9 (64%) are on hard and 1 (7%) are on grass. but in their h2h of a total of 55 matches, as many as 24 (44%) were on clay and only 27 (49%) were on hard while 4 (7%) were on grass.

nole has also won in 7 consecutive big finals (IW 2011 - AO 2012) including clay masters Madrid and Rom and 3 GS finals: W, USO, AO (and he has another sequence of 7 wins in a row over rafa (MC 2015 - Rom 2016 inclusive RG 2015).

nole also has a better record against nadal on HC (20-7) than rafa has against him on clay (17-7).

if we take 14 biggest tournaments then nole has positive h2h against rafa in 8 (AO, W, IW, Mi, Ci, Pa, Ch and WTF) and rafa only in 4 (RG, USO, Rome and Madrid). nole also has wins over rafa in all of the 14 most important tournaments while rafa has no wins over nole in AO, Miami, Cinci, Paris and China (and his only win in W came after nole's injury retirement).
 

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It's one thing supporting a professional athlete, but when you're willing to completely deny reality in the pursuit of that, I don't know how to describe it other than quite worrying.
Not sure why my post is worrying you.
It is obvious to me that in the past 10 or so years Novak is absolute dominant force in men's tennis. If nothing else - just look at the numbers. They paint a pretty clear picture:
  • Novak dominates every stat, every record, every player, and he's clearly and undoubtedly the "Big1".
  • Rafa is solid 2nd, but on a whole level behind Novak.
  • Federer is distant 3rd and closer to Wawrinka and Murray than he is to Rafa
The only times when Rafa and, more, Federer were able to grab a title or take something significant was when Novak was either injured or for some other reasons not fully on-the-court.
So much is obvious, to me and many others (again, just look at the numbers, if nothing else)
So, what is really worrying you?
 

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Not sure why my post is worrying you.
It is obvious to me that in the past 10 or so years Novak is absolute dominant force in men's tennis. If nothing else - just look at the numbers. They paint a pretty clear picture:
  • Novak dominates every stat, every record, every player, and he's clearly and undoubtedly the "Big1".
  • Rafa is solid 2nd, but on a whole level behind Novak.
  • Federer is distant 3rd and closer to Wawrinka and Murray than he is to Rafa
The only times when Rafa and, more, Federer were able to grab a title or take something significant was when Novak was either injured or for some other reasons not fully on-the-court.
So much is obvious, to me and many others (again, just look at the numbers, if nothing else)
So, what is really worrying you?
nole - last 10 years (since 2011).

GS 16 out of 37 = 43%
WTF 4 out of 9 = 44%
masters 29 out of 81 = 36%
YE # 1 5 out of 9 = 56%
weeks as no1 282 out of 478 = 59% * stopped by covid 19

h2h vs rafa 22-10
h2h vs fed 21 (+ WO) -11

  • best ATP season ever, 2015: 3 slams (+final), WTF, 6 masters (+ 2 finals) + 1 more titel and one more final = 16.585p (record for a season)
  • best ATP year ever, W2015 - RG2016: 4 slams, WTF, 5 masters + 2 more titles = 16.950p (historical points record)
  • 4 slams in a row
  • won all 14 big tournaments
 

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I see that many refer to their h2h. GS matches are highlighted as extra important. but at the same time it is forgotten to mention the whole picture as, for example, final matches.

Grand Slam finals: Tied, 4–4
All finals: Djokovic, 15–11

it is emphasized nadals 9-6 h2h in slams but it is not mentioned that almost half or as many as 7 of their 15 GS matches were in RG. that's a whopping 47%! instead of 25%. it is twice as frequent as expected. on the other hand only 2 matches (13%, only half than expected) were on noles favorite slam, AO.

if we look further and analyze their h2h, we see that it is strongly skewed to clay andvantage. of the 14 biggest tournaments 4 (29%) are on clay, 9 (64%) are on hard and 1 (7%) are on grass. but in their h2h of a total of 55 matches, as many as 24 (44%) were on clay and only 27 (49%) were on hard while 4 (7%) were on grass.

nole has also won in 7 consecutive big finals (IW 2011 - AO 2012) including clay masters Madrid and Rom and 3 GS finals: W, USO, AO (and he has another sequence of 7 wins in a row over rafa (MC 2015 - Rom 2016 inclusive RG 2015).

nole also has a better record against nadal on HC (20-7) than rafa has against him on clay (17-7).

if we take 14 biggest tournaments then nole has positive h2h against rafa in 8 (AO, W, IW, Mi, Ci, Pa, Ch and WTF) and rafa only in 4 (RG, USO, Rome and Madrid). nole also has wins over rafa in all of the 14 most important tournaments while rafa has no wins over nole in AO, Miami, Cinci, Paris and China (and his only win in W came after nole's injury retirement).
Great post. And ya, the slam H2H is clay skewed. Can you imagine what the slam H2H would have been had they played seven times at the AO but only twice at the FO?
 

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nole - last 10 years (since 2011).

GS 16 out of 37 = 43%
WTF 4 out of 9 = 44%
masters 29 out of 81 = 36%
YE # 1 5 out of 9 = 56%
weeks as no1 282 out of 478 = 59% * stopped by covid 19

h2h vs rafa 22-10
h2h vs fed 21 (+ WO) -11

  • best season ever 2015
  • historical points record 16,950
  • 4 slams in a row
  • won all 14 big tournaments
Thanks for the numbers man. There are few others that you could've included - but what you put here is more than sufficient.
Not sure how or why people decide to be so obtuse about this. It's like children when they don't get what they want or are afraid of the dark - just close their eyes and scream...
Novak's dominance is clear as day.
 

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nole - last 10 years (since 2011).

GS 16 out of 37 = 43%
WTF 4 out of 9 = 44%
masters 29 out of 81 = 36%
YE # 1 5 out of 9 = 56%
weeks as no1 282 out of 478 = 59% * stopped by covid 19

h2h vs rafa 22-10
h2h vs fed 21 (+ WO) -11

  • best season ever 2015
  • historical points record 16,950
  • 4 slams in a row
  • won all 14 big tournaments
The H2H vs Federer is 21-10. Novak's 2011 and 2015 are also better than anything Federer has ever done. In Federer's statistically best season (2006), he was only 2-5 against Murray and Nadal (4-5 if you include really low ranked Novak). He had a losing record vs the Big 3 and Murray in his best season, while Novak was 10-1 vs Federer and Nadal in 2011 and 12-2 if we include Murray.
 

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Thanks for the numbers man. There are few others that you could've included - but what you put here is more than sufficient.
Not sure how or why people decide to be so obtuse about this. It's like children when they don't get what they want or are afraid of the dark - just close their eyes and scream...
Novak's dominance is clear as day.
yeah.... best year ever W2015 - RG2016: 4 slams, WTF, 5 masters + 2 more titles = 16.950p
 

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nole - last 10 years (since 2011).

GS 16 out of 37 = 43%
WTF 4 out of 9 = 44%
masters 29 out of 81 = 36%
YE # 1 5 out of 9 = 56%
weeks as no1 282 out of 478 = 59% * stopped by covid 19

h2h vs rafa 22-10
h2h vs fed 21 (+ WO) -11

  • best season ever 2015
  • historical points record 16,950
  • 4 slams in a row
  • won all 14 big tournaments
You forgot to mention... Gen useless, weak era, no Slam winner post 1988 and his biggest rival being an old man. So let's have a few astertisks ***
 
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