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There is nothing rasict about population statistics genius. People have the right to be aware of the facts. "Muslim" is not a race btw.
If you don't see anything racist in that tweet, then you're simply an idiot, a racist or both.
 

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I don’t subscribe to the Times, so can not read the article. But I can see the headline. It is about far right nationalism in Europe. You make it sound like it is about the "Muslim Problem".

So I see you now believe that facts are racist.

PS: I don’t think the number of Jews immigrating INTO European countries would justify an article.

From what I read, they are actually leaving, due to increasing anti-Semitism in countries like the UK and France.

Would it be racist to publish the figures on Jews, if there is a net loss?

Your thread title sucks and just shows that you probably did not read the article either.

And it is hardly even worth mentioning that today is Election Day in Sweden and immigration has been the main focus of the electorate. That would make the Times article completely relevant and timely. But you probably don’t care about that. I don’t know what you think the Times is supposed to do. Ignore all reporting on the Swedish elections?
 

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Why would people call it racist if it was about Jews? People wouldn't say shit if it was about Jews, you wouldn't make this thread if the statistics were talking about Jews. Muslims are so protected in our society its absolutely crazy, a 3% increase is a massive amount and people deserve to know about it.
 

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Can you imagine if any European newspaper were to publish something like this about Jews? Nobody would doubt to call it racist bullshit. Why are Muslims any different?
Because being Muslim is a religious affiliation rather than a racial question (being Jewish can be both, of course). Because a significant proportion of recent arrivals to the UK have been Muslims or from Muslim countries, rather than Jewish (from what I heard on the news the other day, the indications are that more Jews are leaving than entering the country)? Because, culturally, Muslim families tend to be larger than the "traditional" British family, and as long as that culture continues their proportion in the population will continue to expand? I can't access the report in The Times, anyway: what is the point it's making - is it merely about the ethnic makeup of the country, or is it the religious makeup? That makes a considerable difference.
 

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Islam is a religion, not a race. Jesus, this needs to be explained in 2018?

It wouldn't be racist about Jews because although Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion, publishing statistics is not racist.

If a newspaper writes about the number of Christians rising in Asia nobody would call it racist (because, newsflash, it isn't).
 

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Yes, the OP is right. The British media have spent years demonising Muslims (especially the Express, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Spectator and the Times). This headline is part of a broader narrative of scapegoating against Muslims. It's a blatant dog whistle to the "Muslims are taking over Europe/Britain" far-right conspiracy freaks. The actual numbers cited here do not support their thesis at all, but facts are completely irrelevant to anti-Muslim scaremongers.

The way the data are presented presented here, even divested of this wider context, is pretty sinister. "Even if all migration were banned" - who is proposing that we ban all migration? It's a moot proposition, except to people on the radical right-wing fringe of politics. It's not the job of serious journalists to publish speculative data about extreme hypothetical scenarios. The only people who want all migration to be banned are those who push the "invasion of Europe" rubbish. This is speaking to them, and it's telling them, "if you want to deal with the Muslim Problem, stopping all migration is not enough". You would have to be very disingenuous to pretend this is not the case.

The fact that most Muslims in the UK have dark skin is 100% relevant.


Edit: holy crap, what a dumb post ^ 🤦 Never pander to the fashionable beliefs of your generation or you will end up sounding like a robot.
 

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Yes, the OP is right. The British media have spent years demonising Muslims (especially the Express, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Spectator and the Times). This headline is part of a broader narrative of scapegoating against Muslims. It's a blatant dog whistle to the "Muslims are taking over Europe/Britain" far-right conspiracy freaks. The actual numbers cited here do not support their thesis at all, but facts are completely irrelevant to anti-Muslim scaremongers.

The way the data are presented presented here, even divested of this wider context, is pretty sinister. "Even if all migration were banned" - who is proposing that we ban all migration? It's a moot proposition, except to people on the radical right-wing fringe of politics. It's not the job of serious journalists to publish speculative data about extreme hypothetical scenarios. The only people who want all migration to be banned are those who push the "invasion of Europe" rubbish. This is speaking to them, and it's telling them, "if you want to deal with the Muslim Problem, stopping all migration is not enough". You would have to be very disingenuous to pretend this is not the case.

The fact that most Muslims in the UK have dark skin is 100% relevant.
Alone, I don't see anything wrong with the article figures (information for information's sake), but I can see what you mean in the context of migration policy, it does seem to have a sinister undertone, and I'll take it from a Brit.

Of course calling it racism is tricky, but it does seem to reek of 'fear-mongering'.
The alternative view is that these statistics might be helpful for 'planning and development of needs'.
 

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Islam is a religion, not a race. Jesus, this needs to be explained in 2018?

It wouldn't be racist about Jews because although Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion, publishing statistics is not racist.

If a newspaper writes about the number of Christians rising in Asia nobody would call it racist (because, newsflash, it isn't).
it seems to me this is mainly referring to Muslims migrating from the Middle East and possibly northern Africa (even though this is not specified). Muslims from South-east Asian would more likely migrate to Australia. In Australia anyhow, we usually use the term Middle Eastern to describe cultural origin, and most Middle Eastern people are also Muslim.
 

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Islam is a religion, not a race. Jesus, this needs to be explained in 2018?

It wouldn't be racist about Jews because although Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion, publishing statistics is not racist.

If a newspaper writes about the number of Christians rising in Asia nobody would call it racist (because, newsflash, it isn't).
I think everybody knows that Islam is a religion and not a race. You still call it racism if a religious group is discriminated. Jesus, this needs to be explained in 2018?

On topic, could not read the article either but I understand it is a sensitive issue. It's obvious that Islam/Islamism/Terrorism/Immigration are overexposed in the media which does indeed discriminate the people concerned or aimed by this. If we would talk as much about climate change as we do about those subjects, I think green parties would be on the rise and not far-right parties.
In France it's actually not possible for the state to make a population census that includes religion/ethnicities because this would be perceived as discriminatory. Calling the media racist when they do it is maybe far-stretched.

My question is: What's the purpose of this article and statistics anyway? Muslims immigration to Europe started 3 generations ago. The third generation should be perceived as European first and not Muslim. Assimilating them with immigrants means calling them outsiders although they aren't or should not be. This is problematic. I was born in Germany, my parents are French and Austrian. I do not have a German passport but I'm not perceived as an immigrant in Germany. Ali, a random Turkish guy my age who was born in Germany, to Turkish parents having earned the German nationality through naturalization and because they were born themselves in Germany after their parents immigrated there, worked there and paid taxes in Germany, is still perceived as Muslim, hence an outsider. This is the real problem imo.
 
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I think everybody knows that Islam is a religion and not a race. You still call it racism if a religious group is discriminated. Jesus, this needs to be explained in 2018?
Lol, no. You don't. Evidently, this needs to be explained to you. If a sexual orientation is discriminated you call it racism? No. Google the definition of racism if you don't know it.
 

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Lol, no. You don't. Evidently, this needs to be explained to you. If a sexual orientation is discriminated you call it racism? No. Google the definition of racism if you don't know it.
It is a fact that a large part (maybe even the majority?) of Muslims are Arabs. Hence, even though Islam is a religion, it obviously carries a strong ethnic association.

Anyway, I have reconsidered the idea I tried to convey in this thread: That the tweet in the OP was racist. Even though I do think British and European media in general are biased and racist towards Arabs, I actually stepped over the line judging this particular case.
 

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Lol, no. You don't. Evidently, this needs to be explained to you. If a sexual orientation is discriminated you call it racism? No. Google the definition of racism if you don't know it.
No need to google it, I know it.
I also know that race is a concept that has been proven wrong by scientists. If there is no such thing as a race, there can't be such thing as racism, right? Wrong, racism still exists and it can indeed apply to a religion too. It's called cultural racism since people are not only discriminated for the color of their skin. This 'culture' they are assimilated to is a reason they are discriminated.

If it bothers you, call it islamophobia but this discussion is nonsense and has nothing to do with the topic.
 

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It is a fact that a large part (maybe even the majority?) of Muslims are Arabs. Hence, even though Islam is a religion, it obviously carries a strong ethnic association.

Anyway, I have reconsidered the idea I tried to convey in this thread: That the tweet in the OP was racist. Even though I do think British and European media in general are biased and racist towards Arabs, I actually stepped over the line judging this particular case.
Indeed, racist is a pretty strong word to use.

In social psychology, they usually teach the stereotype-prejudice-discrimination hierarchy.
Stereotype is to generalise a trait of an individual/set of individual to other members of a group, which is normal as we need to make generalisations in order to navigate our complex environment and learn.
Prejudice is when there is some negativity associated with the stereotype that may influence/bias one's attitude towards those members. When that attitude influences behaviour towards the members of that group, then that becomes discrimination (such as sexism, racism).

So I'd say there may be some degree of prejudice involved, but it's not quite racism in the true sense by form, unless it is accompanied by some treatment based on this biased attitude.
 

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Jews are not a race
Muslims are not a race
Christians are not a race
 

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I'm not that surprised by this being received as racist to be honest. The times of criticizing and talking that badly about other cultures has passed and we should be more careful with what we say. There are many times that fans take the game over to social media and a lot of these athletes are heavily criticized by their statements. Likewise, this is also the case with political figures racist comments who don't realize the impact they have on their party's campaign. UCL had to lose the election back in the day due to the reckless comments of Caylan Ford who never even admitted she was wrong.
 

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Can you imagine if any European newspaper were to publish something like this about Jews? Nobody would doubt to call it racist bullshit. Why are Muslims any different?
Couple years too late I guess to respond to the OP but the answer to this is you guys did a pretty good job of exterminating most of us about 75 years ago. Hey I'm still here. 😎
 

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People are trying way too hard to be relevant/woke/super offended. (and this was pre-pandemic!) In fact, this was happening even in the 2000's over a decade ago when I actually wielded some influence in my beautiful adopted state before the deranged libs took over.

Sad state of affairs really. Just be friendly man. It'll come back and serve you well in the end in return, and i am by no means a hippie :ROFLMAO:😎
 
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