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Discussion Starter #1
I was having a conversation with a mate about the number of pushy parents (or very visible) parents and we came to the conclusion that unlike the ATP the WTA is infested with the PPS (Pushy Parent Syndrome)..with the exception of maybe Agassi and Connors their hasn't been that many guy's dad and mums who are as shall I say 'vocal' in their son's career

I want to know if you agree with the observation and if so why do the girl's have more dependence on parents than the guys and finally if having a PPS is a good or bad thing?
 

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Its definitely a much bigger problem in the WTA, with those girls playing pro at 14 or somthing ridiculous like that :eek:

The ATP doesnt have the same problem, and thank God for that

And i think having a PPS is a bad thing. No one wants to keep thier parents around all that much, and its really bad for personal development
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Its definitely a much bigger problem in the WTA, with those girls playing pro at 14 or somthing ridiculous like that :eek:

The ATP doesnt have the same problem, and thank God for that

And i think having a PPS is a bad thing. No one wants to keep thier parents around all that much, and its really bad for personal development
what about uncle tony? would he qualify?
 

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what about uncle tony? would he qualify?
well, you did say PARENT, and an Uncle wouldnt qualify, would it? :p

but i can see what you're getting at, and in this situation, I dont think Tio Toni qualifies as a PPS. I mean, do you ever hear him bitching and complaining and saying crap in interviews? Like *shudder* Richard Williams?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
well, you did say PARENT, and an Uncle wouldnt qualify, would it? :p

but i can see what you're getting at, and in this situation, I dont think Tio Toni qualifies as a PPS. I mean, do you ever hear him bitching and complaining and saying crap in interviews? Like *shudder* Richard Williams?
True, Toni is really professional he doesn't complain, he's polite and comes across generall as a really nice guy tur PPS are very visible but their are cases when they are just as pushy minus the visible yapping...Toni still feels the need to coach during the match (symptom of PPS 1)... and (I maybe wrong) hasn't delegated Nadal's development to experts (symptom of PPS 2)...I don't want to turn it to a nadal discussion but at some point rafa's game will need to go through an evolution and I'm just wondering if uncle Toni will develope a PPS. To my knowledge rafa's yet to be exposed to expert coaches, Toni's been coaching nadal (very successfully may I add) since his childhood letting go will be so difficult!
But at a certain point in Rafa's career an occasion will arise when nadal will need a new coaching perspective and for all of Richard Williams faults he's let his girls work with Brad Gilbert and Nick bolletteri and many other coaches a good parent would know his or her limitations.
 

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It's more VISIBLE in the wta.

Lots of those guys have parents who are involved in the sport pushing them along, or parents that are the only reason they became pro.

I just thought I'd get that in before this turns into an omg Nadal&UncleToni thread. ;)
 

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True, Toni is really professional he doesn't complain, he's polite and comes across generall as a really nice guy tur PPS are very visible but their are cases when they are just as pushy minus the visible yapping...Toni still feels the need to coach during the match (symptom of PPS 1)... and (I maybe wrong) hasn't delegated Nadal's development to experts (symptom of PPS 2)...I don't want to turn it to a nadal discussion but at some point rafa's game will need to go through an evolution and I'm just wondering if uncle Toni will develope a PPS. To my knowledge rafa's yet to be exposed to expert coaches, Toni's been coaching nadal (very successfully may I add) since his childhood letting go will be so difficult!
But at a certain point in Rafa's career an occasion will arise when nadal will need a new coaching perspective and for all of Richard Williams faults he's let his girls work with Brad Gilbert and Nick bolletteri and many other coaches a good parent would know his or her limitations.
Have you not seen Nadal's game go through an evolution?

U might not have seen him since 03 like i have, but surely you cant say that the Nadal that swept the clay season in 05 is the same one that pushed Federer to 5 sets at the Wimbledon final?

Toni's done a fine job of it, and i would imagine he seeked council from more experienced coaches on how to evolve Rafa's game. Either that or he did it of his own accord
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's more VISIBLE in the wta.

Lots of those guys have parents who are involved in the sport pushing them along, or parents that are the only reason they became pro.

I just thought I'd get that in before this turns into an omg Nadal&UncleToni thread. ;)
true..but nobody's touched on whether or not PPS is good or bad? maybe nadal can only be coached by his uncle maybe martina hingis wouldn't have made with her mamma
 

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true..but nobody's touched on whether or not PPS is good or bad? maybe nadal can only be coached by his uncle maybe martina hingis wouldn't have made with her mamma
it depends on the person. :shrug:

Toni and lets say Yuri Sharapov ( :retard: ) can both train and coach their players, but the way they do it is different.
 

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I think it being good or bad depends on the individual relationship.

If they both have an honest common goal then good, if not then it's bad.


Also these parents don't just coach.
 

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I think it being good or bad depends on the individual relationship.

If they both have an honest common goal then good, if not then it's bad.


Also these parents don't just coach.
Some are belly dancing in Shanghai with their managers :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Have you not seen Nadal's game go through an evolution?

U might not have seen him since 03 like i have, but surely you cant say that the Nadal that swept the clay season in 05 is the same one that pushed Federer to 5 sets at the Wimbledon final?

Toni's done a fine job of it, and i would imagine he seeked council from more experienced coaches on how to evolve Rafa's game. Either that or he did it of his own accord
If uncle Toni is seeking council than I take allot back and I'm not saying Rafa hasn't improved (I’d be blind to even suggest it) but don't allot players of their improving from 18-24 anyway (to varying degrees)?

I'm talking about stage 2 I’m predicting that in the next 5 or 6 years Rafa’s game will need to change dramatically and for all of Toni's great work he might need a completely new perspective and by that time maybe Rafa would be to used to a certain style of coaching ...

I don't want to read to much into his current knee injury but I say he got it not from a 'freak' movement but from his style and although it's not going to be to much a problem right now it can in the future...although it's really dramatic and fun to watch his athletic prowess I’d like to see Rafa ending the points that little bit quicker


I read Mike Agassi's book in which he wrote that he coached Andre to be a serve and volley and that nick bolletteiri had unravelled everything he taught him and turned him into a baseline returner, although mike wrote it as a negative i took it the other way round i don't think he'd have any luck playing serve and volley against the S&V of the 90s. Mike’s book is a good read it really shed some light on the parent versus coach battle…I’d recommend that chapter
 

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If uncle Toni is seeking council than I take allot back and I'm not saying Rafa hasn't improved (I’d be blind to even suggest it) but don't allot players of their improving from 18-24 anyway (to varying degrees)?

I'm talking about stage 2 I’m predicting that in the next 5 or 6 years Rafa’s game will need to change dramatically and for all of Toni's great work he might need a completely new perspective and by that time maybe Rafa would be to used to a certain style of coaching ...

I don't want to read to much into his current knee injury but I say he got it not from a 'freak' movement but from his style and although it's not going to be to much a problem right now it can in the future...although it's really dramatic and fun to watch his athletic prowess I’d like to see Rafa ending the points that little bit quicker


I read Mike Agassi's book in which he wrote that he coached Andre to be a serve and volley and that nick bolletteiri had unravelled everything he taught him and turned him into a baseline returner, although mike wrote it as a negative i took it the other way round i don't think he'd have any luck playing serve and volley against the S&V of the 90s. Mike’s book is a good read it really shed some light on the parent versus coach battle…I’d recommend that chapter
the Agassi story? that was an awesome book, loved it :) Mike HATED boletieri forever, i recall. He also had another daughter marry panco gonzales, but that is another story :p

As for Nadal and Toni, they saw in 05 when he played an insane schedule that they needed to change up his game and be more aggresive and end points quicker and have less stress on his body. And theyve succeeded well on the grass and even clay! If it translates to hard courts like in IW, remains to be seen, but we'll know in a few weeks, no? :p

5 or 6 years down the road? hmmm, if he is going to need to change his game up, the guy hes had his whole life as a coach would probably be the prime candidate to lead the change, no?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
5 or 6 years down the road? hmmm, if he is going to need to change his game up, the guy hes had his whole life as a coach would probably be the prime candidate to lead the change, no?
lets say God forbids something was to happen to uncle Toni...would Nadal's game unravell, he has that dependency on his uncle that alot of the girls in the wta have on their parents...when things aren't going to plan he looks up at uncle toni (which is really sweet) but almost to dependent...if u catch my drift....but i'll concead uncle Toni can't be a PPS he's to intelligent!
 

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lets say God forbids something was to happen to uncle Toni...would Nadal's game unravell, he has that dependency on his uncle that alot of the girls in the wta have on their parents...when things aren't going to plan he looks up at uncle toni (which is really sweet) but almost to dependent...if u catch my drift....but i'll concead uncle Toni can't be a PPS he's to intelligent!
Toni is a Made Man in the mafiosic world, so i daresay there will be any hits on him :p

As for how he would cope afterwards, im thinking it would spur him on to play even better than he does now, he is a fighter at heart
 

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I was having a conversation with a mate about the number of pushy parents (or very visible) parents and we came to the conclusion that unlike the ATP the WTA is infested with the PPS (Pushy Parent Syndrome)..with the exception of maybe Agassi and Connors their hasn't been that many guy's dad and mums who are as shall I say 'vocal' in their son's career

I want to know if you agree with the observation and if so why do the girl's have more dependence on parents than the guys and finally if having a PPS is a good or bad thing?
The parents will always be there to protect their wards (especially the girls). This is understandable. It is when the parents act like coaches that trouble begins.
 

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Not as much here in Australia but they still exist. Few of my mates are sufferers of such syndrome. Those parents badly pisses people off though. There was this one tournament where one of this girl's dad got egged on the head because he was being such a tool on the side of the court watching her daughter's horrible performance.
 

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The ATP doesnt have the same problem, and thank God for that
Eh, not quite. Remember Richard Krajicek?

He got pushed terribly by his dad (who now also coaches his half-sister Michaella, BTW, but it seems he's been improving with age, fortunately) when he was on the rise as a young player - so badly that after Richard's career, he refused to speak to him for years and years!

Things seem to have become patched up lately, but it left a huge scar on their mutual relationship.

Toni Nadal doesn't fit the PPS at all IMHO - I think he knows very well what he's doing, and doesn't really seem to push Raf - it's rather Raf himself that the pushy one.
 
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