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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The following is a proposal regarding exciting changes to the year end championships, currently known as the World Tour Finals (WTF), that I would like to have sent to the various tennis powers for review - ITF, The All England Club, Tennis Australia, USTA, as well as Players Council members, President Roger Federer, Vice-President Rafael Nadal, the ATP CEO, and various television executives. I would appreciate serious review of this from the MTF prior to it being sent.

Proposal to improve the Year End Championship event​
The men's year end championships in their 4th evolution, currently known as the ATP World Tour Finals, have had a history going back near the beginning of the Open Era starting in 1970, with the Masters Grand Prix. The ATP took over in 1990 and called it the ATP Tour World Championship, introducing ranking points equivalent to a major for winning all matches during the event. In 1999, the ATP and ITF agreed to create a jointly owned event called the Tennis Masters Cup. The fourth evolution of the event took place in 2009, when the Masters Cup was renamed the ATP World Tour Finals. In all these versions, the names have changed, some rules have changed, but the format has essentially remained similar; the 8 top ranked men in the world play in an initial round robin format that progresses to a knock-out semifinal and final.

This proposal is designed to change the nature of the end of year event to make it more fair, challenging and enticing for the players and more novel, exciting for the fans, sponsors and everyone else involved. The primary change to the event will be competition by all players on three surface types, clay, grass (natural or artificial), and hard. The surface conditions among the three types must be varied for this change to have any meaning and success. Clay should be the slowest surface, grass should play like normal grass, fast and low bouncing, and hard court should be medium-fast with a medium bounce. Fans would be treated to a variety of play, while players would have a chance to excel on their favorite surface, but would still need to perform well on their less favorite surfaces to have the best chance of advancing. Venues would have to be chosen that could handle the different surface requirements without undue expense. This simply means that the venue would have to have multiple courts, clay, grass, and hard courts, either indoors or outdoors, and be playable in the fall.

There would be two best of 3 set matches played over two consecutive days by each player on each surface in a similar round robin format to that being played today using 2 groups of 4 players each, for a total of 4 matches/day - 2 afternoon matches and 2 evening matches. There would be a day off between surface changes. After all round robin matches have been played on all of the surfaces (a total of 6 matches/player), the 4 players with the best results (using existing scoring methodology), would advance to the semifinals following a day off after round robin play. The 2 players with the best results would be given choice of surface in the semifinals with the choice to be made on the off day preceding the semifinal. The semifinal winners would have a day off when the player with the best results (including semifinal) would make the choice of surface for the final, which would be a best of 5 set match.

The choice of surface in the semifinals and final would be a very interesting and critical tactical decision, similar to Davis Cup surface choices. Will the player choose his best surface, or his opponent's weakest surface? Note that it is suggested that a separate seeding, draw and group arrangement could be used for each surface type to make the matchups more varied and fair if it would not be deemed overly complex. Rankings points would be awarded similarly to now, 200 points for each round robin win (possible 1200 points), 300 for a semifinal win, and 500 for the win in a final, giving a maximum of 2000 points for a player winning all matches. The following is an example of what the tournament singles schedule would look like:

ATP All Court World Championship

------- CLAY-----------------
---Wed---||-------Thu-----------
1A vs 4A-||-W1/4B vs W2/3B
2A vs 3A-||-L1/4B vs L2/3B
1B vs 4B-||-W1/4A vs W2/3A
2B vs 3B-||-L1/4A vs L2/3A

FRIDAY OFF

-------GRASS----------------
----Sat---||-------Sun-----------
1A vs 4A-||-W1/4B vs W2/3B
2A vs 3A-||-L1/4B vs L2/3B
1B vs 4B-||-W1/4A vs W2/3A
2B vs 3B-||-L1/4A vs L2/3A

MONDAY OFF

--------HARD----------------

----Tue---||---Wed-------------
1A vs 4A-||-W1/4A vs W2/3A
2A vs 3A-||-L1/4A vs L2/3A
1B vs 4B-||-W1/4B vs W2/3B
2B vs 3B-||-L1/4B vs L2/3B

THURSDAY OFF

--------SemiFinal---------------
-----Friday Evening-----------
1A vs 2B (1A gets choice of surface)
2A vs 1B (1B gets choice of surface)

SATURDAY OFF

------------Final---------------------
Sunday Afternoon or Evening
W1/2AB vs W2/1AB (Player with highest cumulative score through SF gets choice of surface)
Best of 5 sets

-------------END--------------------

Please let me know your serious thoughts regarding this proposal.
Thank you.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

one of the best ideas i have ever heard. this is a great way to revive the masters cup which they have been trying to save for years.

make it better for the fans and also make it more interesting for the players than to jsut throw a ton of money at them.

also it will bring added global attention to our sport.
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

It's a really nice idea, but seems fincially infeasible.
I doubt the players would enjoy having one day to prepare for a different surface, but it's not impossible.

What would probably happen if they ever did such an event is that they would make the three surfaces play very similarly.
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

The logistics of that are too tough to implement in a profitable way IMO.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with the finals right now, other than the final being only best of three.

I think it's good that the "fifth slam" is indoors since the majors are all outdoors. And the surface is medium slow, so no clear advantage to anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

It's a really nice idea, but seems fincially infeasible.
I doubt the players would enjoy having one day to prepare for a different surface, but it's not impossible.

What would probably happen if they ever did such an event is that they would make the three surfaces play very similarly.
The logistics of that are too tough to implement in a profitable way IMO.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with the finals right now, other than the final being only best of three.

I think it's good that the "fifth slam" is indoors since the majors are all outdoors. And the surface is medium slow, so no clear advantage to anyone.
Thanks for your responses.
I'm curious as to why you would think this would be financially infeasible or unprofitable?
There would be more matches and more days, more potential attendance, television time equating to advertising revenue, and theoretically, more interest because of varied indoor surfaces. A lot of people don't seem to be as interested because the surface is always hard court.

Thanks again.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

round robin has to be more fair imo, somthing like each player having to play every other player in their group on each surface,but with the current 4 players in a group, 9 round robin matches for each player isn't feasible.

maybe something like 12 players gets in, 3 in each group, and you play each other person in you group on each surface. That would be 6 round robin matches each. Winner of each group makes the semis.

Or triple elimination, with the catch that you have to lose on each surface to be eliminated. Not sure how that would work though.

Or the nicely novel idea of a best of 3 match, 1 set on each surface, not sure that idea would fly though.

As you idea is proposed I think the format of the round robin is too unfair

But :haha: at you for thinking that the ATP would even consider an idea from an email from a random fan that would change thier WTf this drastically, and :haha: again for thinking they would make the 3 surfaces the way they were meant to be, fast, Medium, and Slow
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

one of the best ideas i have ever heard. this is a great way to revive the masters cup which they have been trying to save for years.

make it better for the fans and also make it more interesting for the players than to jsut throw a ton of money at them.

also it will bring added global attention to our sport.
Thanks for your response and kind words CD.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

round robin has to be more fair imo, somthing like each player having to play every other player in their group on each surface,but with the current 4 players in a group, 9 round robin matches for each player isn't feasible.

maybe something like 12 players gets in, 3 in each group, and you play each other person in you group on each surface. That would be 6 round robin matches each. Winner of each group makes the semis.

Or triple elimination, with the catch that you have to lose on each surface to be eliminated. Not sure how that would work though.

Or the nicely novel idea of a best of 3 match, 1 set on each surface, not sure that idea would fly though.

As you idea is proposed I think the format of the round robin is too unfair

But :haha: at you for thinking that the ATP would even consider an idea from an email from a random fan that would change thier WTf this drastically, and :haha: again for thinking they would make the 3 surfaces the way they were meant to be, fast, Medium, and Slow

Thanks for your response.
But who said it would be an email from a random fan?
I only said it would be sent. I didn't mention through whom. ;)

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

Three points:

1. Changing surfaces multiple times throughout a competition is madness. No player would ever agree to it. The matches would almost certainly be terrible quality as well. You can't just go from clay to grass to hard without time to prepare.

2. This concept of changing the surface of the YEC to make it more "fair" is very silly. Should we change the surface at Wimbledon to make it more fair to players who don't like grass? Personally, I think the YEC should be very fast not the medium/slow pace like it is. I don't care about creating a level playing field. I want to see who is best on an indoor hardcourt. The same way I want to see who is best on clay when I watch Roland Garros.

3. Even if you ignore my first two points and everyone loved the idea, it could never work logistically or financially.
 

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Re: ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, Player Strike, Schedule Issues, IW-Miami too long e

^^The year end championships is not meant to be just another tournament like Roland garros is, it's sort of meant to be like a champion of the ATP like any playoffs type thing is. It's not seen that way though, with Grand Slams being worth more, and most of the players too tired after a long season to care much about it. But that's the reason for the proposol, how can it be a final year end playoffs type thing if the surface only represents the surface of 1 part of the year, would be like the golf Fed Ex Cup Playoffs only being played on Par 5 holes(pardon the reference if you don't follow golf, it fit the best imo).

I agree though, multiple surfaces would be tough to implement, but it would be representative of the full year more the way it was meant to be I think

I love how all this guys proposils get moved here:yeah:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

Three points:

1. Changing surfaces multiple times throughout a competition is madness. No player would ever agree to it. The matches would almost certainly be terrible quality as well. You can't just go from clay to grass to hard without time to prepare.

2. This concept of changing the surface of the YEC to make it more "fair" is very silly. Should we change the surface at Wimbledon to make it more fair to players who don't like grass? Personally, I think the YEC should be very fast not the medium/slow pace like it is. I don't care about creating a level playing field. I want to see who is best on an indoor hardcourt. The same way I want to see who is best on clay when I watch Roland Garros.

3. Even if you ignore my first two points and everyone loved the idea, it could never work logistically or financially.
Thanks for your honest appraisal, Arakasi.

1. I was hopeful the top players would see the surface changes as challenging rather than madness. There are examples throughout the year where they have to quickly make 1 surface change, especially for those that play Davis Cup. But I agree that they usually would have more than 1 day to prepare.

2. I would completely agree if YEC were truly an indoor hard court slam (major). But it isn't. Maybe one day the Australian Open in Melbourne will be with all its stadiums having a roof and their indoor facilities. The YEC is the best 8 in the world only. It's a summation event. They got to be the best 8 by playing and excelling on different surfaces throughout the year, though granted, recently so many of the playing conditions are so homogenized, the differences are slight. So for the year end championship to be played on a surface that favors only one particular style (whether it be very fast, or very slow, etc.) does seem somewhat unfair, though I understand your reasoning.

3. I would be interested in the reasons you believe it wouldn't work logistically or financially in a venue that supported multiple court surfaces.

Thanks again for your responses and time.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, Player Strike, Schedule Issues, IW-Miami too long e

I think a court like this would be the best solution

 
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Re: ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, Player Strike, Schedule Issues, IW-Miami too long e

^^The year end championships is not meant to be just another tournament like Roland garros is, it's sort of meant to be like a champion of the ATP like any playoffs type thing is. It's not seen that way though, with Grand Slams being worth more, and most of the players too tired after a long season to care much about it. But that's the reason for the proposol, how can it be a final year end playoffs type thing if the surface only represents the surface of 1 part of the year, would be like the golf Fed Ex Cup Playoffs only being played on Par 5 holes(pardon the reference if you don't follow golf, it fit the best imo).

I agree though, multiple surfaces would be tough to implement, but it would be representative of the full year more the way it was meant to be I think

I love how all this guys proposils get moved here:yeah:
Yes, agree with your playoff analogy.

And why was this proposal thread moved here? This thread wasn't titled Proposals thread. This thread is ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, or Player Strike or Schedule issues, etc. It's a specific tournament thread to change the playing conditions/format of the Year End Championship. I sent a message to the mods. Let's see what happens.

Thank you for restoring this thread mods!

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, Player Strike, Schedule Issues, IW-Miami too long e

The only thing bad about WTF is that it's too late in the season and should be held a month earlier. Other tournaments could follow it and the top players deserve some rest
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: ATP/ITF calendar suggestions, Player Strike, Schedule Issues, IW-Miami too long e

I think a court like this would be the best solution

LOL. Nice sense of humor. :)

But I think I would change the blocks around. Make behind the baseline all clay so the clay court players could slide to their heart's content. Make the service boxes grass to keep serve and volley people happy, and the court between the service boxes and baseline, hard court, so deep topspin returns could bounce over people's heads. ;)

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Re: Proposal: Improve the Year End Championship

The logistics of that are too tough to implement in a profitable way IMO.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with the finals right now, other than the final being only best of three.

I think it's good that the "fifth slam" is indoors since the majors are all outdoors. And the surface is medium slow, so no clear advantage to anyone.


we need great threads like this one so great ideas can be generated.

the objective is noble: make the sport more appealing globally and make WTF more exciting.
 

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Nice, let's lower the performance even futher by pushing player around different surfaces. All we want is some top players clowning around in some mugfest anyway.:cool:
:yeah: good idea to downgrade YEC to some kind of exhibition. They should seriously think about it.
 

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Re: ATP/ITF Calendar/Schedule Suggestions, shorter season and other issues

this thread playing musical chairs, where will it end up next?:p
 
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