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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

I actually agree that Davydenko is a player who made the most out of his career despite a few missed opportunities (which every single player in the history of sport has). The bolded parts are however either wrong, or irrelevant to his lack of a slam. Net skills aren't the facet of tennis that will keep you from winning big matches, unless you utterly fail at putting the ball away. Davydenko had one of the best drive volleys in the game anyway which are an adequate replacement. He lacked physical stature but his technique and timing meant that he never lacked raw power. While his personality was robotic his actual strokes were as fluid as you can get. He loved absorbing pace so he certainly wasn't a player that I would count as being prone to being blown off the court.
Timing has nothing to do with raw power. Davydenko could hit the ball with the accuracy of metronome but he did not have the strength to bash the ball and hit through the court the same way Rosol or Soderling could. His hitting was good enough to rob more powerful player time to set up their shots (Berdych is the perfect example). But when his opponent could stay with him in the rallies he had no answer, he could not switch gears. That's what I mean by "robotic play". I mean, Davydenko was pwned by such a giant of the game as Chela.
Davydenko's myth is based entirely on his overrated (due to the fact they never met at slams) H2H vs Nadal.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Davydenko is a bit of mystery to me, when his serve was actually working like in 2008/2009, he could really crank it in the high 130's and was close to unplayable on medium paced HC, something i never thought of someone like Nalbandian (even in his late 2007 run). The thing is Davydenko didn't have the mentality of a champion and thus couldn't do anything at a slam where the pressure is a lot higher.

So in some way he maxed out his talent tennis wise (when he showed numerous times how good he was) but if we are looking at his achievement, it's unfair to say he maxed out his talent.

Of course he was struggling against big hitters when they were "in the zone" but who isn't anyway?
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

I think you're grossly understimating him for some reason. When focused, he was almost as unplayable as Nalbandian with his early hitting and effortless changes of direction of the ball. Not many gears, true, but his main one is far from easily exploitable. In fact, I struggle to think how it is. His failures normally come as either not finding his groove at all or collapsing at some point all on his own, more so than the opponent finding a way to rob him of his game.

With a bit better mentality and more confidence in big matches, he could have done more.
I also think it's a damn shame Federer robbed him of his momentum (and his possible moment of glory) in that AO match by that prolonged bathroom break. It highlights why Davy remained without a slam final, let alone a slam, because we all know they are pros at the the top level and should be able to deal with anything thrown at them, but also that the sportsmanship award has been given with no rhyme nor reason to the top player in recent years. Such blatant lack of sportsmanship, I feel they should deduct one slam from Federer for it.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Peak Davy> Peak Nalby

In fact except BH lob i struggle to think of one facet in the game where Nalby is better at.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

What do you mean? As good as Kolya's BH is, surely David BH is even better in all aspects. :confused: Aside from that, Nalbandian did have different gears.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Yeah, Nalby BH is that bit more versatile, and that's about it. Davy plays a higher tempo, moves better served better at his best and they returns both equally as well. Did i mention that Davy takes the ball so much earlier? Besides, Davy did have different gears which includes the choking gear when it got tight.
There was a reason he was called the play station guy, he played at the highest gear all the time at his best.

I like both but i think at their best Davy edges it.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Davy maxed out his talent but also showed mental weakness in important moments. He did everything he could to get the best out of his game.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Timing has nothing to do with raw power. Davydenko could hit the ball with the accuracy of metronome but he did not have the strength to bash the ball and hit through the court the same way Rosol or Soderling could. His hitting was good enough to rob more powerful player time to set up their shots (Berdych is the perfect example). But when his opponent could stay with him in the rallies he had no answer, he could not switch gears. That's what I mean by "robotic play". I mean, Davydenko was pwned by such a giant of the game as Chela.
Davydenko's myth is based entirely on his overrated (due to the fact they never met at slams) H2H vs Nadal.
Timing and technique is where 90% of "power" comes from in tennis. Pure strength isn't going to help you if your technique is the real hindrance. I fail to see what relevancy Rosol and Soderling have - Roger Federer also lacks their raw power, as do Djokovic, Murray and Nadal. To say Davydenko failed to win a slam because of he was underpowered is ridiculous. It was his serve and weak mentality that cost him rather than the fact he couldn't hit 130mph winners.


By your definition of being "robotic" half the ATP tour are cyborgs.
 

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Re: Players that absolutely and utterly MAXED out their talent's/game's - Redliners

Timing and technique is where 90% of "power" comes from in tennis. Pure strength isn't going to help you if your technique is the real hindrance. I fail to see what relevancy Rosol and Soderling have - Roger Federer also lacks their raw power, as do Djokovic, Murray and Nadal. To say Davydenko failed to win a slam because of he was underpowered is ridiculous. It was his serve and weak mentality that cost him rather than the fact he couldn't hit 130mph winners.


By your definition of being "robotic" half the ATP tour are cyborgs.
Once again, good timing which allows you to use your opponent's pace against them and ability to create a heavy ball by yourself are not the same talent (though they are not mutually exclusive as well). Davydenko's one-dimensional game was not good enough to beat the best players at slams and he could do nothing else. Neither bash the ball, nor change the rhythm, nor wear the opponent down with superb defense.
As I said, there is the reason why Davydenko's biggest win at slams came over 30 years old Tim Henman.
 

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i believe that Ferrer got his game and his strengths to the top and performs consistently at the very top of his abilities. Only reason he has not achieved to win a slam is the reason hewitt has won slams (timing), he peaked earlier and managed to play to his full potential right before nadal, roger etc. so i would say those two got the maximum out of their abilities.
 

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Nadal
Federer
Isner
Anderson
Karlovic
Monaco
Cilic
I am not so sure about Karlovic. Especially after his recent clay season I wonder whether he could have been much better from the baseline if he got proper training in his youth.

Some players from my mind:

Nadal
Federer
Isner
Anderson
Monaco
Robredo
Bautista-Agut
Simon (game-wise)
Rosol
 

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The ease and fluidity alone with which Davydenko used to hit his groundstrokes should be evidence enough that he vastly underachieved. He kept running into Federer like everybody else at the end of the big tourneys and nobody at that time had the belief that they could win, unless you were Nadal.

Davydenko also did not care about changing his game to try a 'Plan B', but what does that have to do with 'talent'? He was an extremely stubborn player. Yeah. But when he got to play his way, and he played good, you can't tell me that he really was able to max his talents. That's just silly. The guy was on the form of his life when he broke his wrist in a freak accident. He actually beat Gulbis with that same broken wrist.
 

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Nadal
Murray
huh?

Give me the template of Murray and you have an incredible player, Incredibly quick, exceptional movement, good at the net, sublime backhand, lovely slice, sensational tactical awareness and a first serve which at times can be brilliant. Yes his forehand isn't as good as others but its hardly rubbish either? Surely with all this ability he should've sorted out his main weakness, second serve no? No way has murray "redlined" his talent, Djokovic has done that to a greater extent imo.

Answer to OP: Sampras, by far and away is the most obvious choice here.
 

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Murray, with his relatively weak FH, game style which is to a large extent based on the defense and running and because of it- tendency to injuries ,with not so strong mentality , and really poor second serve, managed to win 2 GS in era of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic is for me fine example how to maximize talent.
 

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Ferrer and Sampras off the top of my head.

Djokovic.

Solid but unremarkable. Rotten touch as well.

He has won slams through his defensive play. No other reason.
Unfortunately touch isn't an essential talent these days (in singles that is).

Couldn't agree less with your last statement though. Djokovic has a great attacking game as well.
 

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Djokovic has won all his slams with a mixture of defense and offense. It's Murray who has won all his slams predominately through being defensive.
 

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Rios, OK I can go with that, but Safin? If anything he is a huge underachiever. Injuries, even when healthy losing his focus all the time, focusing on good looking women and partying, not tennis. Well, I don't blame him that much.

He shined twice (at the USO 2000 and the AO 2005) like the brightest star ever ... He could've done so much more. Marat was very special in many ways.
I nominate this for the stupidest post in MTF history :lol:
They were joking.
 
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