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Discussion Starter #1
At present the Connors, Lendl, McEnroe and Borg era remains the strongest and most dominant in tennis history. This current age is the second best. Sure, Murray only got three slams, but the fact that Stanimal also has three suggests that Murray could certainly have won more than he did. Connors would have won more than 7 if he had gone to Oz.


Yeah right :) ever heard of Kelly Evernden?

Amazingly, Evernden played pro tennis with only one lung, having had a lung removed as the result of an injury sustained in an accident at the age of 16. He was hit by a car and his heart stopped twice in five days (once for one minute and once for 45 seconds). In addition to puncturing a lung which had to be removed, he also had a broken arm, leg and ribs [Wikipedia]

Ended up winning 3 ATP titles, with one lung missng, what a strong era it was :)


All this to say, so called records achieved by Connors mean nothing compared to Federer's 103 titles. And I stand by my opinion, Murray is in absolute terms a better player than Connors.
 

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There is no Connors, Lendl, McEnroe Borg era, though, because Lendl entered his first GS semi & final in 1981 (the last B.Borg's season), and the last GS final ten seasons later in 1991, otherwise Agassi could be included in Fedalovic era as well.
 

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Muster won a slam after being hit by a car and getting his kneed destroyed, were the 90s a weak era too?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Muster won a slam after being hit by a car and getting his kneed destroyed, were the 90s a weak era too?
You can't compare, Muster recovered fully and has 2 legs, 2 arms and 2 lungs like the other players, on the other hand Evernden had 1 lung compared to 2 for the field, now tell me with a straight face a player with 1 lung would win ATP titles today :p
so much for the strong era that was the 80s, and Connors with his 109 titles. I hope Federer doesn't care about that so called "record". :)
 

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for the strong era that was the 80s, and Connors with his 109 titles.
Well, it's to Evernden's credit for having made a career with this handicap, but it has no causal connection to Connors' career.

It's been a while since I wanted to clarify this subject and his109 titles, often denigrated "beach tournaments".

To pass this brief judgment on 70's tennis is also to ignore the circuit of the time, the geographical context, its economic reality and Connors' undisputed reputation as a dollars hunter.

Denying this reality would be the same as denying the achievements of the players before Open and seeing the achievements only under the eyes of the current circuit.

Connors is American, the American circuit then offered a number of tournaments in a geographical era easier to cover under the conditions of the time, with a comfortable remuneration, without requiring a long trip, and of course, even more with the presence of a competitor circuit, the WCT.

For Connors, only Wimbledon by its prestige justified the trip, beyond the reality of the prize money.

This is so true that the Australian Open only saw him twice, in 74 and 75 for a title and a final, when it would have been easy for him to accumulate the titles in a tournament which remained a slam.

And it is certainly not Connors, warrior of the courts who will be suspected of having been "afraid" of meeting his main competitors.

Another example on the end of his career from the mid-80's, Connors had a great crossing of the desert, in titles, between his 104th title in Tokyo (oct 84) and his 105th in Washington (jul 88). of 4 years without title! For a winner like him, you have to realize the frustration.

Well, in the meantime, he lost no less than .. 11 finals .. and it is surely not to avoid the big players of the moment, if we see the list of his winners .. but in 10 years, the circuit also had another reality and Connors still played these tournaments, when he could have aimed lower to inflate (still) more his list of titles.

He also continued to play tournaments not listed by the ATP, for obvious financial reasons, his career is quite consistent with the realities of the moment.

This long post to say, that imo, Connors' track record is fully valid and does not justify under valuing it by current standards.

As a reminder, the finals lost by Connors from 1984 to 1988 and his opponent in the final.
From 33 to 35, at a time when a career was already over at 30, or even earlier.




42198525-31 marsFort Myers Paine Webber Classic (États-Unis)DurDrapeau : Tchécoslovaquie Ivan Lendl
4319851-7 avrilChicago Volvo/Chicago (États-Unis)MoquetteDrapeau : États-Unis John McEnroe
44198617-23 marsFort Myers Paine Webber Classic (États-Unis)DurDrapeau : Tchécoslovaquie Ivan Lendl
4519869-15 juinQueen's (Londres) Grass Court (Angleterre)GazonDrapeau : États-Unis Tim Mayotte
46198618-24 aoûtCincinnati ATP Championship (États-Unis)DurDrapeau : Suède Mats Wilander
47198622-28 septembreSan Francisco Transamerica Open (États-Unis)MoquetteDrapeau : États-Unis John McEnroe
4819879-15 févrierMemphis Volvo/U.S. National Indoor (États-Unis)Dur (int.)Drapeau : Suède Stefan Edberg
49198716-22 marsOrlando Paine Webber Classic (États-Unis)DurDrapeau : Afrique du Sud Christo van Rensburg
5019878-15 juinQueen's (Londres) Grass Court (Angleterre)GazonDrapeau : République fédérale d'Allemagne Boris Becker
51198815-21 févrierMilan Stella Artois Italian Indoor (Italie)MoquetteDrapeau : France Yannick Noah
52198814-27 marsKey Biscayne Lipton International (États-Unis)DurDrapeau : Suède Mats Wilander
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, it's to Evernden's credit for having made a career with this handicap, but it has no causal connection to Connors' career.


I am afraid you are mssing the big picture, you need perspective. If the 1 lung player could win 3 titles, he obviously beat some top 50 players to win those titles, and obviously Connors had to beat similar players to win so many mickey mouse tournaments.

I never drew a straight line between Evernden and Connors but it is obvious a 1 lung player winning ATP titles says a lot about the field on the whole.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Evernden highest ranking: 31 :) that says it all.

In today's era, a 1 lung player wouldn't make it to the top 1000.
 

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I am afraid
You don't have to be afraid :)
I express my point of view on this, as I clarified (imo).

Of course everyone is free to have another, and if I omit something, what is certain is that I do not suffer from the recency bias to devalue each epoch by a comparison and hazardous projection.

I am a supporter of Federer, I specify in case it is ignored and that is not why I will belittle Connors' career to what it was in his time.
 
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