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Pep Guardiola as a football manager is....

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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I believe he's a GOAT coach..........when he has peak Messi/Iniesta and prime Xavi to work with....It ends there, though..

I'm not sure that 3-10 aggregate loss in consecutive Champions League Semis doesn't immediately take away from your luster and reputation, especially so when your gig is about coaching the nucleus of the players who were incumbent World Champions for Germany and dominant CL winners for Bayern during your tenure(not to mention other elite foreign talent)..So the roster downgrade, assuming it is such, is undoubtedly not that significant..

Although his team was snake-bitten by injury in 2015;for two consecutive years, their the KO stage, even at full strength, was a pretty underwhelming showing all along (having to sweat out Moyes' United and Wenger's Arsenal :lol:)..

Plenty of critics pile on Mourinho one-dimensionalty for coaching style, but Pepe lack of malleability as a manager is starting to show too-- being heavy on possession despite not having a couple or 3 players with expertise for such skillset....He was lost somewhere in his transition to more efficient and direct German style of play..Even on the domestic league, despite swooping in on Dortmund key players, Bayern's Guardiola has never really figured them out the way his Barcelona team dominated Madrid..They pretty much split their encounters..So a couple of Bundesliga titles and cup, which could be won by a B team, is certainly a pitiful for him..

You think he got exposed?

Discuss.......
 

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I think the truth always lies in the middle when it comes to coaches - there are a few great ones, but they usually get either too much credit or else too much criticism.

In all likelihood there may have been a culture clash in Munich but what happens on the pitch should always be on the players as well
 

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I don't care, for us Culers he will always be a hero.

Don Pepito :hearts:


Maybe too many people will tell you that he revolutionized football, which he clearly didn't. He is an attackingly minded coach, which can be beautiful at times (with the right players), but when it fails it looks way too risky and criticizers will bash him for his tactical failure.

Like ibreak4coffee just said, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Pep is a perfectionist, an elite coach and will go down as one of the best coaches ever if he continues to win prizes, but his influence shouldn't be exaggerated.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
A great coach, but there a few greater (Heynckes, Lippi, Clough, etc.).
I would add a guy like Hiddink-- one of the most underrated coaches ever -- who never did enjoy a stacked team but left immense mark even everywhere with often severely flawed roster..
 

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Maybe too many people will tell you that he revolutionized football, which he clearly didn't. He is an attackingly minded coach, which can be beautiful at times (with the right players), but when it fails it looks way too risky and criticizers will bash him for his tactical failure.

Like ibreak4coffee just said, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Pep is a perfectionist, an elite coach and will go down as one of the best coaches ever if he continues to win prizes, but his influence shouldn't be exaggerated.
Couldn't have said it better. :worship:

btw: Pep is still so young and won already so much as a manager. It will be interesting how he will do in future
 

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The coach's responsibility in football is overrated anyway, let's not forget a total clown like Domenech was two penalty kicks away from winning the World Cup in 2006. :lol:
 

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The coach's responsibility in football is overrated anyway, let's not forget a total clown like Domenech was two penalty kicks away from winning the World Cup in 2006. :lol:
Not always. Sometimes a team can do well if it's too good regardless of the coach. But some teams would have been vastly inferior to what they were with a different one.
 

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The coach's responsibility in football is overrated anyway, let's not forget a total clown like Domenech was two penalty kicks away from winning the World Cup in 2006. :lol:
Agree. Some 4 years ago Barcelona wasn't winning everything because of Guardiola, they were winning because they had the best players in the world (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi). For fuck sake Barcelona was always playing the same way regaldess of the opponent (Getafe, Real Madrid, Man Untied, Bayern etc).
 

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Yes, he was always overrated. I mean, he's a pretty good coach, but people talk about him as if he is the 2nd Rinus Michels.

Bayern was a much better team with the older coach that it is right now. And he has better options than Heynckes. I don't understand neither Rafinha or Alcântara being starters in a very deep of talent roster. And he insists with those guys. Pretty much the same he did in his last year in Barcelona, trusting too much in the likes of Cuenca and Pedro.
 

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i really think bayern has regressed and part of that blame has to go to him. im not sure if he is over-rated but i do think the way he does things doesnt work for bayern. they went from being the best team in the world to what they are now which is barely top 5. winning multiple titles a years easily to barely scraping out a season with 1
 

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A tad overrated. Messi will make any coach look good not to mention some of the other legends Barca during Pep's tenure.

Hard to properly gauge him at Bayern as they win the league by default. His Champions League defeats have been very bad but is it fair to judge him based off 4 games?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
A tad overrated. Messi will make any coach look good not to mention some of the other legends Barca during Pep's tenure.

Hard to properly gauge him at Bayern as they win the league by default. His Champions League defeats have been very bad but is it fair to judge him based off 4 games?
I sure made it clear in the OP about a full strength Bayern "having to sweat out Moyes' United and Wenger's Arsenal"..Team clearly regressed under him..
 

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Absolutely not, GOAT manager with an amazing football ethos and philosophy. His trophy cabinet speaks for itself, also he never failed to reach SF of the CL, but more importantly his teams have a distinct identity and his Barcelona side is arguably the best of all-time...

He was just thwarted by Messi's genius in this tie but I'm sure he'll win CL again soon.
 

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Absolutely not, GOAT manager with an amazing football ethos and philosophy. His trophy cabinet speaks for itself, also he never failed to reach SF of the CL, but more importantly his teams have a distinct identity and his Barcelona side is arguably the best of all-time...

He was just thwarted by Messi's genius in this tie but I'm sure he'll win CL again soon.
How do you explain his team being completely outclassed in two consecutive CL semis (3-10 agg)?..And let's be honest, Barcelona could have run up the score in the second half if it chose to (early Suarez substitution)..Winning a couple Bundesligas after stripping your chief rival (Dortmund) of its major assets is hardly an achievement..Yeah, team was especially decimated by injuries in 2015, but he's still working with the core of WC Champions (2014) champions and CL champions (2013)..If he doesn't win it next year, assuming he won't bolt to City, the narrative of "made by Messi" is going to gain more momentum..
 

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How do you explain his team being completely outclassed in two consecutive CL semis (3-10 agg)?..And let's be honest, Barcelona could have run up the score in the second half if it chose to (early Suarez substitution)..Winning a couple Bundesligas after stripping your chief rival (Dortmund) of its major assets is hardly an achievement..Yeah, team was especially decimated by injuries in 2015, but he's still working with the core of WC Champions (2014) champions and CL champions (2013)..If he doesn't win it next year, assuming he won't bolt to City, the narrative of "made by Messi" is going to gain more momentum..
He isn't perfect, even the best lose sometimes. But Guardiola is yet to have a bad season in his managerial career, you can always count on at least 1 title + CL semis. Also I think Barcelona being as strong as they are now is a credit to Guardiola too, it's only possible due to the groundwork he left; for me, it's a sign of a great manager when the groundwork he leaves ensures the club remains strong even after he departs...

I do agree Messi > Guardiola as a reason for Barcelona's success though. Managers are important, but ultimately football is decided by the players; as good as Guardiola is, put any other player in the world in Messi's place and he'd have had way more problems of course. It helps when you're coaching a player who's the best goalscorer, the best passer and the best dribbler in the world, in other words the best player in the game by miles.
 

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I do agree Messi > Guardiola as a reason for Barcelona's success though. Managers are important, but ultimately football is decided by the players; as good as Guardiola is, put any other player in the world in Messi's place and he'd have had way more problems of course. It helps when you're coaching a player who's the best goalscorer, the best passer and the best dribbler in the world, in other words the best player in the game by miles.
Of this current squad Messi (Dani Alves and Busquets too if you want to be an ass) is basically the only groundwork left over from the Pep era. Neymar, Suarez, Rakitic are all new key players. Xavi and Iniesta are both shadows of the players they were. So the success of this current seasons Barca has little to do with Pep in my opinion.

I don't think Pep is as bad as some people might suggest after his massive failures in the last two Champions League campaigns. But clearly getting to coach peak Messi is a monumental advantage. And I think you would have to say his two years at Bayern have been slightly disappointing since he didn't even make a Champions League final.
 

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The coach's responsibility in football is overrated anyway, let's not forget a total clown like Domenech was two penalty kicks away from winning the World Cup in 2006. :lol:
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on MTF - truer words have never been spoken :lol:
 

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Truth lies in the middle. He's a great coach, but he will always be 'incomplete' until he wins something important in another place except Barcelona.

Mourinho is better than him, he won the CL with two teams that were way weaker than any Barcelona or Bayern.
 
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