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  • Djokovic the BOAT

    Votes: 13 46.4%
  • Wawrinka the beast

    Votes: 15 53.6%

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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Novak "He's fucking strong" Djokovic (Wawrinka's quote post match USO 2013 semi)
or
Stanimal (AO 2014, etc.)

discuss.
 

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On hard court you could argue this match already happened and big Novak won. Assuming a neutral surface you'd assume an attacking shotmaker at their absolute peak should beat the defender more often than not. At this point mentality comes into it too and if you take that into account it's hard to see big Novak beating Wawrinka at his best, as much as it pains me to say it.
 

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Peak of a player lasts only a year or two. Prime lasts quite a few years. Peak, prime does not matter, man. This match-up is on Wawrinka's racket, IMO.

Wawrinka reads Djokovic's game very well and knows how to play him. Wawrinka won his last grand slam in 2016, but he comes out of no where and beats Djokovic in US Open in straight sets in 2019, the year Djokovic won 2 grand slams and Wawrinka won 0 grand slams. This is in addition to beating Djokovic in grand slams during 2014 (@ AO), 2015 (@ FO), and 2016 (@ USO), the years Wawrinka won grand slams. That's all you have to know.
 

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These peak/peak comparisons are beyond stupid..

Rather try, prime vs prime in their best form equally rested etc...

I would like to remind everyone Djokovic was NOT equally rested for the FO 2015 final.
 

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Peak Wawrinka for sure, we saw how he ripped Djokovic apart in the French Open final and also took him out in other grand slam matches. Djokovic beats him most of the time but when Wawrinka is at his best, the shots he manages to hit are on another planet and he manages to do it consistently throughout the match when at his best.
 

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Peak does not exist. It's a made up concept.
What does this even mean?

A player doesn't have a or several performance/tournament/year which is his best? Lol
 
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We don’t have to theorize we watched it several times and Wawrinka won every single one. This isn’t even a debate in my opinion at least not a good one.
 

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Peak Wawrinka would be favorite but it's a bit meaningless in an overall context when you can't maintain that peak for as long as the ATGs. Peak Safin would beat peak Waw after all.
 

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We don’t have to theorize we watched it several times and Wawrinka won every single one. This isn’t even a debate in my opinion at least not a good one.
Not every single one. AO 2013, USO 2013, AO 2015 and several times at Bo3 as well. Sure, Wawrinka is the player that beat peak Djokovic the most probably, but to say "every single one" is a massive exaggeration.
 

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Peak aggressor always beats peak pusher, thats how it works and its wonderful to watch.
I really like Wawrinka, and sure, he has a chance to beat Djokovic if both play their best. With that said, I don't agree that the aggressor always wins if we have two good players in equally good form that use different tactics.

A really good defensive tactic executed to perfection by a skilled player performing at his best (with varying placement, spin, speed, etc) can make it virtually impossible for an attacking player to redline the whole match - even if he is on. If the more defensive player is a great returner that puts a lot of balls in play, he will get his chances against the aggressor.

Now, of course, this has not always worked out for Nole. I think a problem for Djokovic in the match-up against Wawrinka is that his normal game gives the Swiss a lot of rhythm. Nole wants to play in a certain way (rallies at a medium pace from corner to corner) and the variation he needs to bring to throw Wawrinka off his game doesn't come naturally at all for him. He has his drop-shots, of course, but that is just one tool, and if this particular shot is used too much it will work against him.
 
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