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If a new "GOAT" comes up every 20 years or so, there is no GOAT.
 

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Djokovic may pass Federer in the GOAT debate on paper and probably already has in some people's eyes but his style of play along with his highest level vs Federer's highest level don't make him the greatest for me. How I see it is that when Federer is at his best, he is NOT playable anywhere or at anytime. Not the same can be said for Djokovic or even Nadal for that matter. They are very very good of course but they can still be taken out by top players who play well on a given day. Federer at his best can't lose. In order for someone to beat Federer, he really just has to beat himself either mentally or physically in the way the match plays out. It's more so along the lines of that, Federer loses the match and not that his opponent necessarily wins it for themselves. The stats even support this argument. Stats like Federer's first serve percentage, his unforced error count, and how he plays on big points. Sorry, but thats just how I see it.

Please let me know what you guys think about my take.
You are right about roger outside clay. In clay the best nadal beats best roger easily. But everywhere else, the best roger destroys the best nadal, faker and sampras, and he does it effortless and gracefully. There is a fast court goat (roger) and a slow court goat (rafa). Faker is just a pusher, he won most slams when roger and rafa where out of their prime.
 

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You are right about roger outside clay. In clay the best nadal beats best roger easily. But everywhere else, the best roger destroys the best nadal, faker and sampras, and he does it effortless and gracefully. There is a fast court goat (roger) and a slow court goat (rafa). Faker is just a pusher, he won most slams when roger and rafa where out of their prime.
shut up, Djokovic is the best
 

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shut up, Djokovic is the best
I can somewhat relate when people point out that peak Federer and Peak Djokovic never really clashed (if something abstract like peak even exists or makes sense) but it is purely disonest to say that Rafa wasn't at his best when he clashed against Novak in 2011/12/13/14.
 

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GOAT was decided in Laver's favour 60+ years ago. As we can see: nothing has changed. People are obsessed with recency bias; they simply have to believe that what they're witnessing is the best that there has ever been or will ever be. Not true. More fool them.
 

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GOAT was decided in Laver's favour 60+ years ago. As we can see: nothing has changed. People are obsessed with recency bias; they simply have to believe that what they're witnessing is the best that there has ever been or will ever be. Not true. More fool them.
When you put it in a global context, Federer has done worlds more for tennis than Laver.

And given the level of the competition鈥攖o say nothing of the incalculable increase in the stakes鈥攖here is really little to discuss.
 

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When you put it in a global context, Federer has done worlds more for tennis than Laver.

And given the level of the competition鈥攖o say nothing of the incalculable increase in the stakes鈥攖here is really little to discuss.
Not true: Laver and his generation birthed modern tennis and everything we take for granted now. Nothing much has changed since the 80s. They were the last generation to really advance the game.
Stakes are all relative. The stakes were actually higher in the pre Open era as players needed the money and success from winning. Now they can pull a Kyrgios. The level has vastly reduced: strings and racket technology does most of the work nowadays, rather than technical ability. Surfaces are also homogenised. The game has been dumbed down alarmingly. Did you see Djokovic's slice and volleys the other day, and Medvedevs drop shots? World #1 and #2 eek.
 
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Not true: Laver and his generation birthed modern tennis and everything we take for granted now. Nothing much has changed since the 80s. They were the last generation to really advance the game.
Stakes are all relative. The stakes were actually higher in the pre Open era as players needed the money and success from winning. Now they can pull a Kyrgios. The level has vastly reduced: strings and racket technology do most of the work nowadays, rather than technical ability. Surfaces are also homogenised. The game has been dumbed down alarmingly. Did you see Djokovic's slice and volleys the other day, and Medvedevs drop shots? World #1 and #2 eek.
Drawing from an exponentially larger talent pool now (despite the relatively horrendous base level at present).

Not sure what you're on about regarding relative stakes. Federer is a billionaire. With a capital B. His nearest competitors are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Their foundations are addressing issues in third world countries. Their sponsors are multinational giants. The level of pressure that they face is not remotely comparable.

God Laver is an icon, and I'm glad that Federer has honored him with his own Cup.

But the GOAT brought Laver renewed relevance. Federer brought the game places no one really imagined.
 

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GOAT was decided in Laver's favour 60+ years ago. As we can see: nothing has changed. People are obsessed with recency bias; they simply have to believe that what they're witnessing is the best that there has ever been or will ever be. Not true. More fool them.
Sure.
Beating guys who worked nine-to-five is the greatest achievement in tennis.
 

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Sure.
Beating guys who worked nine-to-five is the greatest achievement in tennis.
Yes, they wanted it more; they needed it more - this much is obvious.
 
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GOAT was decided in Laver's favour 60+ years ago. As we can see: nothing has changed. People are obsessed with recency bias; they simply have to believe that what they're witnessing is the best that there has ever been or will ever be. Not true. More fool them.
One point I would like to bring up is fortune; working against Federer, and in favour of Laver. Without Rafa, Federer would have at least 2 CYGS (debatable, but quite possible). Laver did not have an undisputed surface GOAT blocking him.

Among the big 3, Federer is the only one who might have completed the CYGS without any one of the other 2. Djokovic wasn't stopped by Rafa, and Rafa wasn't stopped by either.

You have to admit that Laver is fortunate in this regard.
 

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One point I would like to bring up is fortune; working against Federer, and in favour of Laver. Without Rafa, Federer would have at least 2 CYGS (debatable, but quite possible). Laver did not have an undisputed surface GOAT blocking him.

Among the big 3, Federer is the only one who might have completed the CYGS without any one of the other 2. Djokovic wasn't stopped by Rafa, and Rafa wasn't stopped by either.

You have to admit that Laver is fortunate in this regard.
Rosewall still holds the wood title record. Also very tough on clay and indoors.
 

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When a GOAT level candidate says you're ONE of the greatest instead of just you're THE greatest then it's a slight imo. Deep down it means two things -

A) You don't want to admit that said player is the GOAT
B) You think you're better

I don't think there is a C. Or is there?

In general I don't have time for wishy washy opinions. Go broke or go home.
 

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This was said by Djokovic to Federer after Wimbledon 19.

It was also said to Djokovic at the USO award ceremony and then on Twitter by Laver.

To what extent is this actually a compliment to people with aspirations of being the GOAT? It is already clear that they are both "one of" the greatest so why bother saying it at all? Is saying this just a backhanded way of saying "you've had your chance at clear GOAThood and you blew it?" I can only remember this being said after an enormous fail by the player in question.

Djokovic could have killed the issue but now you will still get Laver, as someone else put it, riding the CYGS train to GOATville, and it will be a constant debate rather than a settled issue. Although he is ahead of Fedal and should cement this in the Slam count.
Anybody who has an aspiration of being the GOAT is a pure idiot, because there is no chance of a tennis player achieving that status.
The community willl always be way too divided to ever agree on one player, let alone the criteria.....literally no chance of it ever happening.
That's why I question why fans bother to debate the subject.....since there is no answer and no end game....
I'm probably the most powerful Nadal fan we've ever seen, and I won't even call Nadal GOAT if he wins 30 slams (and if Federer/Djokovic remain on 20), because I knew that comparing eras is a pointless exercise, plus its disrespectful to past greats.
 

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Michael Jordan refuses to acknowledge the concept of GOAT too-

The GOAT debate is an evergreen one suited for any occasion, yet it isn鈥檛 one NBA players find too hard to decide. According to a survey by The Athletic, polling 117 NBA players, the best player of all time is Michael Jordan, and overwhelmingly so. Jordan took a rousing 73% of the vote, while his two biggest rivals in LeBron James and Kobe Bryant only mustered less than 12% of the vote each:

Michael Jordan (73%)
LeBron James (11.9%)
Kobe Bryant (10.6%)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1.7%)
Magic Johnson, Allen Iverson, Kevin Durant (1%)

Bryant recently was a guest of James Corden of 鈥淭he Late Late Show鈥 and was asked to rank himself among Jordan and James, ranking himself atop the list, while ranking Jordan second and James third.
James, meanwhile, claimed he ascended as the greatest of all time after defeating the 2015-16 Golden State Warriors in the postseason, the team that won the most regular-season games in NBA history.
Jordan has never claimed to be the greatest of all time and has rather deflected questions of this nature, but that hasn鈥檛 seemed to impact his place in history, nor the minds of current players.
 

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Rosewall still holds the wood title record. Also very tough on clay and indoors.
Very tough is not the same as Rafa on clay. I am sure you agree that if at all anything is undisputed, it's Rafa's GOATness in clay.

Djokovic is very tough in clay, Guga was..... Federer would have won the CYGS (most probably) if they were his opponents.
 
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