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What is your religion/worldview?


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The question of where laws of nature come from is the pivotal one. For at one point indeed it had to all have started somewhere. Or maybe not and there's an option we can't even see/understand right now. But it's not a god that looks on everything we're doing here and left books for us to decide all our life decisions on. For me the answer lies in/with science
“Modern science is based on the principal ‘Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest’. And that one free miracle is the appearance of all matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it - from nothing in a single instant.” Rupert Sheldrake


..instead of a story that people itself came up with and is 100% fabricated. (and, sorry for all religious people out here, just plain stupid most of the times in my eyes).
and thus satan, ‘who deceives the whole world’ (Rev.12:9, John 12:31), blinds the mind of man by banishing the creator from his creation.


"Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools." (Rom 1:19-22, NKJV)

But the end result is still, in my opinion, a fairy tale book which offers us nothing in this day and age.
“For we have not followed cunningly devised fables when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16, KJV)
 

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I'm not 100% in agreement with this guy but almost everything he points out is correct. Learn what your religious and political leaders really believe in.
"Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.' ” (Luke 4:5-6, NKJV)

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations! (Isaiah 14:12, NKJV)

regarding our masonically subverted religious leaders..

"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " (Matthew 7:22-23, NKJV)

“And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15, NKJV)
 

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Yes, that's very true and most 'archaeological' parts of the Bible are neither confirmed by current science nor today's theology. Most of its scripture which seems to be 'hard facts' are rather worth to be taken metaphorically.

Finkelstein's theory is the Old Testament is a text document to describe Jerusalem's Temple from its Genesis (Book of Genesis gets the focus on why has been built the Temple and what does it have to do with God), through its history with Moses and Juda's judges and kings until its destruction in 587 BC. So it's the holy Scripture for God's chosen holy Temple which the Christian church(es) want to feel connected with.
Archaeological (non)finds are enlightening. Don't know about his theories though (very similar to what masons are propagating).

The fact that there's no Solomon's temple and no proof of dominant civilization in Israel doesn't mean it's all metaphorical. Maybe it only means that we're looking at wrong place and possibly time?

We know now that flood story comes from Sumer, so other stuff probably belongs to Babylonian and Egypt history and Bible authors just renamed it and situated it where it doesn't belong for political reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #264
Archaeological (non)finds are enlightening. Don't know about his theories though (very similar to what masons are propagating).

The fact that there's no Solomon's temple and no proof of dominant civilization in Israel doesn't mean it's all metaphorical. Maybe it only means that we're looking at wrong place and possibly time?

We know now that flood story comes from Sumer, so other stuff probably belongs to Babylonian and Egypt history and Bible authors just renamed it and situated it where it doesn't belong for political reasons.
though how much are they even able to excavate given the current conditions? The place of the old temple would have been overbuilt by the second, and the second demolished in AD70, and now a mosque lies over part of the temple mount and they haven't been able to truly excavate the area properly legally. They've found some evidence to suggest civilisation in the time but without a proper excavation I'm afraid they won't really find that much.
 

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though how much are they even able to excavate given the current conditions? The place of the old temple would have been overbuilt by the second, and the second demolished in AD70, and now a mosque lies over part of the temple mount and they haven't been able to truly excavate the area properly legally. They've found some evidence to suggest civilisation in the time but without a proper excavation I'm afraid they won't really find that much.
Archaeological non-finds in Israel coincide with written history of neighboring kingdoms. So you may believe that it's all a giant conspiracy against Israel and version of Bible you know today but more sensible explanation is that Bible stories have been edited for political purposes.

Let's leave Shlomo's temple aside, whole of Israel archaeology tells another story from what's written in the Bible. Jerusalem is insignificant village at the time when it should have been center of a powerful kingdom. So I'd look for true Bible origins in actual powerful kingdoms of the time.
 

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Archaeological non-finds in Israel coincide with written history of neighboring kingdoms. So you may believe that it's all a giant conspiracy against Israel and version of Bible you know today but more sensible explanation is that Bible stories have been edited for political purposes.

Let's leave Shlomo's temple aside, whole of Israel archaeology tells another story from what's written in the Bible. Jerusalem is insignificant village at the time when it should have been center of a powerful kingdom. So I'd look for true Bible origins in actual powerful kingdoms of the time.
well I'm not quite sure. There is some limit to how much you can uncover. We know Babylon was a great empire which literally disappeared overnight when the Medes took over. It's almost hilarious to think of it in those terms given how great that civilisation was and it's now all a fragment of history. That said, Israel as great a civilisation as it was didn't have massive armies or conquering force as some might suggest. Taking Canaan after leaving Egypt is one thing, but that was really a small geographic centre when you look at Asia Minor and broader Mesopotamia. Also, Israel was often 'closed' off, they had interactions with some neighbours during periods of war, such a described in 2 Kings 6 (Syria) but there is very little in the Old Testament to suggest that the Israelites moved beyond their borders purposely or had intent to conquer further land outside of where they were established. The emergent Greco-Macedonian and Roman empires were certainly more influentialand more expansive and territorial, so really Israel has nothing on these guys, or even the Egyptian empire in terms of influence. Solomon's period as described in the Bible was quite an ideal in terms of stability and prosperity, but I'm still not exactly sure it could begin to rival other empires. Thereafter, the empire slowed down and Israel was eventually taken captive by Babylon, and Assyria, and later subjugated to Roman rule. Evidently some history would be wiped out.
 

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The problem with physics is as it reads - it is purely related to the physical world. It tells us the how but never the why. It also tells us nothing about the metaphysical world or of phenomenology. People can try to define love as purely an interaction of positive reinforcing neurotransmitters going off in the amygdala and other emotional centres but that reduces it in a way that is not representative of our true experiences. Similarly, science can't really explain morality. According to Darwinian Natural Selection, morality is almost against instinct to be the best and selfish to our own success and survival. Evidently though, we maintain morality in a societal sense to help function more productively than if it were each man for his own. However that doesn't hold for everything if you could surely advance at the cost of another person, many would not hesitate to do so. And no algorithm could really define morality in a scientific sense.

In my mind, there exists a spiritual realm that cannot be explained by the physical senses.

The question of why is just not that relevant for me. If we talk about all questions I'm interested in the how mostly. And this is because for me the question of why is not important for me. I don't believe there's a reason behind why we're here. I believe there're processes behind why we're here. I do agree with you that things like morality brings up interesting questions. The funny thing is I'm always reading up on things like if there's a spirit, we're more than our brain etc. Because as much as don't believe in it even I would like if it was so. It would give my life more meaning for myself. The thing is that all the logical, proof bearing answers point to the the side for me. And it's not that it's close like 60/40 so there's reason for doubt in my eyes, but 95/5.
 

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There is a lot we don't understand.
God is just a word for what we can't understand. Logically we can't define it. It's also a fact there there was almost no significant mind in history who was atheist.

As for Bible, saying that it offers us nothing "in this day and age" sounds both arrogant and ignorant. Specially if Bible is the distant echo of possibly much more technically advanced "day and age".
I don't see how it's arrogant or ignorant at all. I will even turn it around. I think it's pretty arrogant and ignorant that people use this ''distant echo'' to tell people how to life right now.
 

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I don't see how it's arrogant or ignorant at all. I will even turn it around. I think it's pretty arrogant and ignorant that people use this ''distant echo'' to tell people how to life right now.
Did I wrote that it's ignorant and arrogant to not live life by the words of Bible? Definitely not.

As for churches using Bible to tell people how to live, that's also false. They are just using "God's" authority to make believers obey authority of church, Pope, donate etc. Take Vatican for most extreme example. it's literally inversion of everything written in the Bible. Believers often never read 5th of it all in their life, let alone think about it critically.

But book is not worthless. It's full of half truths, hijacking of history, exaggeration. But it's valuable as research material to connect the dots with other fragments of ancient times.
 

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By the way,

In my mind, there exists a spiritual realm that cannot be explained by the physical senses.

while the picture looks like a good joke, the so-called "fleshbag" is vastly superior data carrier than anything we ourselves were able to come up with so far. The difference is so mind boggling our bodies might be considered alien tech compared to our hard drives and stuff. :lol:

The nucleus of a human cell is on average 6μm (or 6×10-6 meters) in diameter. VERY small – that’s not a whole lot of space to hold anything. Yet, at a bare minimum the complete human genome is about 20GB (that’s a fairly conservative number – some people estimate the genome at between 50 and 100GB of info). That means that the nucleus stores all of our DNA, in just 137μm3 of volume. That translates to just about 0.18GB in just 1μm3 of nucleus.

Here’s where we can make things a little more interesting. In comparison, if a modern hard drive were to have the same “data density” as a cell’s nucleus, one typical hard drive would be able to store almost 6.9 × 1013 GB of data. That’s the equivalent of all the data on the internet 140 times over. Put another way – if our hard drives had the same “data density” as a cell’s nucleus the typical hard drive would be able to store 140 internets.
 

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Did I wrote that it's ignorant and arrogant to not live life by the words of Bible? Definitely not.

As for churches using Bible to tell people how to live, that's also false. They are just using "God's" authority to make believers obey authority of church, Pope, donate etc. Take Vatican for most extreme example. it's literally inversion of everything written in the Bible. Believers often never read 5th of it all in their life, let alone think about it critically.
Agree with you here.
But book is not worthless. It's full of half truths, hijacking of history, exaggeration. But it's valuable as research material to connect the dots with other fragments of ancient times.
This is basically what I meant with saying that I value the book as a scholar but nothing more.
 

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Discussion Starter #272
By the way,



while the picture looks like a good joke, the so-called "fleshbag" is vastly superior data carrier than anything we ourselves were able to come up with so far. The difference is so mind boggling our bodies might be considered alien tech compared to our hard drives and stuff. :lol:
Yes, my degree was in neuroscience so it does downplay the genius of cells and indeed the entire nervous system as a whole. My neurophysiology professor once said that the one thing keeping a patient alive in the operating theater is not the surgeon, nor the anaesthetist but the patient themselves via their autonomic nervous system.

Other than data storage, the ability of the brain to learn is arguably the most sophisticated feature of intelligent life.
Tell someone to create a program that can recognize something as trivial as numbers on a screen and they might baulk. Yet the brain automatically finds a way to do this, and for much more complex things such as faces.

Given the complexity involved, I find it hard to believe intelligent life was simply the means of an 'accident'.
 

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Discussion Starter #273
Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael. Jesus was born without a father to signal that there will be no more prophets from Isaac/Jacob bloodline. The next prophet will come from the line of Ishmael.

Muhammad's advent was hinted in Deuteronomy 18:17-19 as God told Moses "I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee."

Jesus also speaks of a prophet after him in Matthew 21:43 "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation given fruits thereof."

Also Isaiah 21:13-17 accurately predicts a lot of events in Muhammad's life. It's actually the first time I'm reading this verse, and given the fact that I've read so much about Muhammad's life it was so scarily accurate. It clearly predicts a prophet's advent in Arabia as it starts with "The burden upon Arabia. In the forest of Arabia shall ye lodge ...."
I just wanted to clarify this point. Many Muslims refer to the Deuteronomy passage to say that this prophet spoken of in Deuteronomy 18 is none other than Muhammad. However, I find it difficult to ascribe this verse to Muhammad. The context of Deuteronomy is in re-prescribing God's laws and his word to the Israelites (Deuteronomy means "second law") just before Moses' passing. So everything recorded there relates to the people of Israel specifically.

Also, the chapter preceding uses the exact same language as in chapter 18.

“When you come to the land that the Lord your God is giving you, and you possess it and dwell in it and then say, ‘I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me,’ you may indeed set a king over you whom the Lord your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother." Deut 17:14-15

Moses did not have to reclarify what "brothers" meant in chapter 18 because it was already discussed in chapter 17, as shown above. The NIV bible expresses "brothers" as "fellow Israelite" to stamp out any confusion to the matter.

Moreover, in Acts 3 of the New Testament, Peter refers to the passage in reference to Jesus:

“Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’ Acts 3:17-23

Deuteronomy closes with these words:

"Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel." Deuteronomy 34:10-12

Thus lays the benchmark for prophets after Moses. They must arise in Israel, know God face to face, and do signs and wonders in the sight of the people. As far as I know, all prophets in the Bible are of this nature. Christians believe that Jesus is the last of the prophets and carries the final word.

 
"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe." Hebrews 1:1-2

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." Revelation 22:18-19


Matthew 21:43 isn't talking about prophethood but the fact that the Pharisees and some Jews would reject him as their Messiah, and therefore the Kingdom of God and salvation would come to others who would believe it, such as the Gentiles.

 
He says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” Isaiah 49:6

"In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” Micah 4:1-2


You can read further on this in Acts 10 and 11 when this actually starts to be fulfilled.
 

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I just wanted to clarify this point. Many Muslims refer to the Deuteronomy passage to say that this prophet spoken of in Deuteronomy 18 is none other than Muhammad. However, I find it difficult to ascribe this verse to Muhammad. The context of Deuteronomy is in re-prescribing God's laws and his word to the Israelites (Deuteronomy means "second law") just before Moses' passing. So everything recorded there relates to the people of Israel specifically.

Also, the chapter preceding uses the exact same language as in chapter 18.

“When you come to the land that the Lord your God is giving you, and you possess it and dwell in it and then say, ‘I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me,’ you may indeed set a king over you whom the Lord your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother." Deut 17:14-15

Moses did not have to reclarify what "brothers" meant in chapter 18 because it was already discussed in chapter 17, as shown above. The NIV bible expresses "brothers" as "fellow Israelite" to stamp out any confusion to the matter.

Moreover, in Acts 3 of the New Testament, Peter refers to the passage in reference to Jesus:

“Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’ Acts 3:17-23

Deuteronomy closes with these words:

"Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel." Deuteronomy 34:10-12

Thus lays the benchmark for prophets after Moses. They must arise in Israel, know God face to face, and do signs and wonders in the sight of the people. As far as I know, all prophets in the Bible are of this nature. Christians believe that Jesus is the last of the prophets and carries the final word.

 
"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe." Hebrews 1:1-2

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." Revelation 22:18-19


Matthew 21:43 isn't talking about prophethood but the fact that the Pharisees and some Jews would reject him as their Messiah, and therefore the Kingdom of God and salvation would come to others who would believe it, such as the Gentiles.

 
He says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” Isaiah 49:6

"In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” Micah 4:1-2


You can read further on this in Acts 10 and 11 when this actually starts to be fulfilled.
You quote so much out of the Bible here. May I ask what the book means to you? Just wondering without judgement.
 

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I want to add another question

How do other religious see moses?

In jewdisem he is very important, equals to abraham's status and closeness to god
 

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@Punky are there many atheists living in Israel?
 

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Atheists no but a lot believe in God and practice beside jewdisem bc it is pretty hard

It sucks being a jew
Why?
 

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Besides the world hate and antisemitism?

You need to follow so many thing and do things

Cant eat this and cant do that.

And you are never ever good enough
 

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Besides the world hate and antisemitism?

You need to follow so many thing and do things

Cant eat this and cant do that.

And you are never ever good enough
Sorry I thought you meant being a Jew in Israel. Yeah I can see that. Well for all the non-love between Jews and Muslims, that's one thing you have in common with each other. And it's also one of the reasons I could/would never do it. (no disrespect here)
 
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