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Yes? No? Maybe?

The same arguments used against Rafa's longevity apply for Nole. I don't see how he can keep up this kind of play without his body breaking down. Proof USO & Davis Cup 2011.

And he is 24 already. Next year he enters tennis' middle age.

Rafa should just hang in there in 2012 preserving his body, 2013 may be an even field once again.

How long do you think Nole can keep it up? What are his options to preserve himself?

Can he transition into an aggressive player (who doesn't need to out-rally the opponent all the time)?
 

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I've been giving Djokovic a hard time about developing into a more defensive player this year, but I admit I've been a bit unfair. I don't think today's surface homogenization will allow someone to be as dominant as an offensive player. Defense win slams in todays game so Novak has wisely developed his game for the short term, but it may hurt him in the long term.
 

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Yes? No? Maybe?

The same arguments used against Rafa's longevity apply for Nole. I don't see how he can keep up this kind of play without his body breaking down. Proof USO & Davis Cup 2011.

And he is 24 already. Next year he enters tennis' middle age.

Rafa should just hang in there in 2012 preserving his body, 2013 may be an even field once again.

How long do you think Nole can keep it up? What are his options to preserve himself?

Can he transition into an aggressive player (who doesn't need to out-rally the opponent all the time)?
In 2013 the party will be ovah for Nole. :wavey:

You can't play like THAT:tape: and expect to still be winning slams in your late 20s like Federer did for example.
 

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Looks like Nadal learned to play more forgiving tennis. It was unfortunate he got sick in Doha where all started. But generally Nadal didn't have any serious injury since AO 2010.
 
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these surfaces destory any type of goat listing or player ability

because the grand slams are all the same- if you are good on 1 you are good on them all
 

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I've been giving Djokovic a hard time about developing into a more defensive player this year, but I admit I've been a bit unfair. I don't think today's surface homogenization will allow someone to be as dominant as an offensive player. Defense win slams in todays game so Novak has wisely developed his game for the short term, but it may hurt him in the long term.
Yes, he adapted to the playing conditions, reaped the benefits but also paid the price. I'm curious how long he'll be able to keep up like that.
 

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He doesn't have the physical resiliency of Rafa. More made of glass then cement. Longevity as in how long? 5-6 years? No way. Maybe 2 years.. 3 at best. Thus why I always said he fucked himself when he underachieved from '07 to '10. If he would have had his shit together then he would have maybe 7 or 8 slams now opposed to 4 which is what he needed to catch Rafa of Fed
 
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setsampras i think you're actually right

sampras is in the goat argument ahead of federer

why?

he played on really different surfaces

federer has 16 slams but any slam after 2003 has a Question mark over it anyway- by 2009 the french open had been sped up so fast i honestly think 1992-1996 sampras would actually have a chance on it

federer's own legacy is in ruins by the ass ****** nadal has given him- its even worse because nole (who is a transitional champ of his day) owns nadal and shows how shit nadal's game actually is

sampras has negative H2H's but no one owned him at the slams- which is the true sign of a champion=

i dont think sampras is goat- i dont think there ever can be a goat- but the best player so far? on fast grass sampras is BY FAR the greatest ever

on any surfaces (except indoors) nadal 2008 is >> federer which ruins his legacy

if nole gets to 10+ slams and has a positive H2H record over fedal- ill rate him higher than them both out of spite
 

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He doesn't have the physical resiliency of Rafa. More made of glass then cement. Longevity as in how long? 5-6 years? No way. Maybe 2 years.. 3 at best. Thus why I always said he fucked himself when he underachieved from '07 to '10. If he would have had his shit together then he would have maybe 7 or 8 slams now opposed to 4 which is what he needed to catch Rafa of Fed
Somehow it strikes me their problems might be complementary: Rafa's problems with legs are notorious, while Nole has been quite unaffected in that department so far.

On the other hand, Nole seems to be developing trouble with the upper body, where Rafa is nothing short of a small tank.

In the long run, I'm not sure which type of problem is easier to address to. For a defensively oriented player, legs are primary source of income, so Nole might have the upper hand there, since he seems to be genetically more nimble and lithe, and he also weighs less. But of course, no amount of running helps if you can't serve properly or drop a forehand bomb because you have some trouble with your shoulder or your back.
 

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He doesn't have the physical resiliency of Rafa. More made of glass then cement. Longevity as in how long? 5-6 years? No way. Maybe 2 years.. 3 at best. Thus why I always said he fucked himself when he underachieved from '07 to '10. If he would have had his shit together then he would have maybe 7 or 8 slams now opposed to 4 which is what he needed to catch Rafa of Fed
Too true! He had a really great potential. He still has. But time is ticking away.
 

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setsampras i think you're actually right

sampras is in the goat argument ahead of federer

why?

he played on really different surfaces

federer has 16 slams but any slam after 2003 has a Question mark over it anyway- by 2009 the french open had been sped up so fast i honestly think 1992-1996 sampras would actually have a chance on it

federer's own legacy is in ruins by the ass ****** nadal has given him- its even worse because nole (who is a transitional champ of his day) owns nadal and shows how shit nadal's game actually is

sampras has negative H2H's but no one owned him at the slams- which is the true sign of a champion=

i dont think sampras is goat- i dont think there ever can be a goat- but the best player so far? on fast grass sampras is BY FAR the greatest ever

on any surfaces (except indoors) nadal 2008 is >> federer which ruins his legacy

if nole gets to 10+ slams and has a positive H2H record over fedal- ill rate him higher than them both out of spite

Yea I dunno.. 10 plus slams for Nole? At this point its probably pushing it.. This was his absolute peak year and his body is suffering now because of the way he plays to have that kind of year. He isn't an offensive powerhouse, easy point winner etc. He relies to much on the turning defense into offense game plan. He definitely needed more slams by now to get in the 10 plus category IMO. He should have more AO titles to his name right now, and he should PROBABLY already have another USO title to his name if anything. When you underachieve to 3-4 years, it comes back to haunt you.
 

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The next step the ATP will be willing to undertake is make hardcourts easier on the knees, so that players like Rafa and Nole can extend their careers respectively.
 

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setsampras i think you're actually right

sampras is in the goat argument ahead of federer

why?

he played on really different surfaces

federer has 16 slams but any slam after 2003 has a Question mark over it anyway- by 2009 the french open had been sped up so fast i honestly think 1992-1996 sampras would actually have a chance on it

federer's own legacy is in ruins by the ass ****** nadal has given him- its even worse because nole (who is a transitional champ of his day) owns nadal and shows how shit nadal's game actually is

sampras has negative H2H's but no one owned him at the slams- which is the true sign of a champion=

i dont think sampras is goat- i dont think there ever can be a goat- but the best player so far? on fast grass sampras is BY FAR the greatest ever

on any surfaces (except indoors) nadal 2008 is >> federer which ruins his legacy

if nole gets to 10+ slams and has a positive H2H record over fedal- ill rate him higher than them both out of spite
nadal defeat federer because tactic , his spin lefty-forehand hurts much the one handed backhand and physicall condition is very important too , federer doesn`t has the physicall of nole for example...... and nadal`s tennis not hurt nole anymore and federer tennis yes, the styles hurts one player more tha other, it`s very comun in tennis.

but nadal never defeats peak federer in fast courts slam even in nadal`s peak and with the surfaces more slows nadal needs of 5 sets to defeat a past peak federer.

nole now is demostrate that nadal won his fast courts titles bacause in 2008-2011 he hadn`t rival in peak on fast courts, federer weasn`t in his prime anymore and nole hadn`t peaked yet.

and sampras many times were defeated by many mugs, especially in clay and you can`t compare agassi with nadal.
 
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the goat argument RESTS on how you do against your biggest rivals

navratilova-evert
graf- seles (what would have happened if...)
billie jean king- court
laver- rosewall
federer - nadal

federer did dominate all his peers untill 2004 when nadal stepped up- 2006- federer's best year is marred by constant domination by a single guy

then getting taken to 5 sets on grass in 2007- still considered (by some) as part of federer's prime

in 2008 making 3 finals and getting owned by nadal-

the iceing on the cake is AO 2009- a worn out nadal beats the super mental joke federer on a hardcourt playing his 1 dimensional BS

it wouldn't matter if nadal wasn't being dominated himself

the nadaltards talk about nadal losing his form- that is bullshit- nadal in 2011 has put in one of his greatest seasons ever- he is 25 years old

he got found out by nole-

matchups are everything but nole has proven that you can overcome- federer couldn't adjust his game- he wouldnt learn and now he's a joke and his legacy is ruined

nole has turned around both of his losing H2H's

a transitional champ playing in a shit era with a 1 dimensional game proves himself better than federer- talk about a legacy killer

suddenly sampras beating chumps like pionline doesn't look so bad
 

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He doesn't have the physical resiliency of Rafa. More made of glass then cement. Longevity as in how long? 5-6 years? No way. Maybe 2 years.. 3 at best. Thus why I always said he fucked himself when he underachieved from '07 to '10. If he would have had his shit together then he would have maybe 7 or 8 slams now opposed to 4 which is what he needed to catch Rafa of Fed
This.

He underachieved big time.

Nole should have 8 slams right now if he didn't go AWOL from 2007-2010.
 

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The next step the ATP will be willing to undertake is make hardcourts easier on the knees, so that players like Rafa and Nole can extend their careers respectively.
Exactly, instead of making hardcourts play like blue/green clay and telling us they are hardcourts, just replace it with actual clay. Replace grass with dirt and make indoor clay courts. Some Italians like Di Mauro and Galvani are so old that they already have one foot in the grave but are still around because they play mostly on the dirt.
 

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The next step the ATP will be willing to undertake is make hardcourts easier on the knees, so that players like Rafa and Nole can extend their careers respectively.
This only seems logical.
 

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longevity no way, his style of play really really grinds. and the ironic part of it is, when he was not gluten free and would get tired more easily, Djokovic was retrieving a much lower amount of balls and was not really expected to face the problems he is now. it's almost as though him getting healthier has made him MORE risk likely to injury.

he'll be fine for a few more years for sure but all of that running on hard courts will catch up to him, neither him or Nadal wil be like Federer was as far as their late 20's are concerned
 

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He may be fine if he invests in a bigger egg.
 
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