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Is Novak Djokovic already currently the G.O.A.T. ?

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If we consider only GS titles and GS finals played, Novak equalized Roger Federer's record past Sunday (20/31).

However, since Novak has beaten RF in all other key areas (Masters titles, Weeks at no. 1 etc.), he has effectively surpassed Roger Federer, even without winning U.S. Open and CYGS.
 

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Also DCGS, holding all slam titles at the same time.

Federer still has some significant yet smaller records over Djokovic: 4 more semis, 7 more quarters, 46 more match wins at Grand Slams. But Djokovic might get close there. Also one YEC and Federer made the Olympic final.
 

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Djokovic is currently the most accomplished player, that's for sure.
However, is the "most accomplished" equal to "the greatest" ? I don't know, especially if the difference in achievements with other competitors (in this case let's say Fed and Rafa) is not so big.

I personally believe "the greatest" is a rather subjective matter. Sure, you need to attain a certain threshold of success to even be in the discussion but after that it's left to personal opinions.
This means I think saying Federer/Nadal/Djokovic is the goat is a valid opinion and I thought this way before they were at 20 slams each.
 

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You know what GOAT stands for? Greatest is a subjective way of measuring things.
GS titles sure are good for measuring this but it's 20-20-20 and all 3 won't be far away from each other when it's all said and done.

Why is MJ considered the goat of basketball? He doesn't have most titles or most points. But he elevated the sport to a new dimension, was and still is an icon of the sport. Same could be said about Federer but both are not unanimously declared goats by media, fan and fellow players. That's why we're having a debate and it's all fun and entertaining but you should know that you will never convince any of the other fan bases that your player is GOAT. So I don't get the point of this?
You are flooding the forum with pointless goat debate threads, none of which contributes anything new to the subject or tennis in general.
Do it in the endless goat debate thread. You won't get as many answers to your post compared to when you make a new thread but that's maybe because nobody truly cares?
There's more to tennis than the big 3 and the question who is GOAT.
 

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There is no an ounce of doubt that he is the new (open era) stat goat, but Nadal and Ex-goaterer could still get their co-goat statuses back if they won another slam before Goatovic.
 

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He is the GOAT, the statistics speak for themselves. Only people saying otherwise are Fedal fans or Novak haters lying to themselves and trolling. Once all the passion dies down from every fan base the numbers for Novak will still be there and it will objectively be the case that he is the GOAT
 

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Greatest is an objective way of measuring things. "Best" would be a subjective way of measuring things. The reason Novak is the G.O.A.T. is because the numbers of his career clearly illustrate he is the greatest to ever play this sport.
No, it cannot be objective if we don't agree on what numbers matter (the most).

For instance : Slams and M1000 did not always exist the way they do now with many players skipping AO back in the day and the surfaces being different. M1000 did not exist or did not have the same importance.

Overall titles and wins are consistent throughout time though so I'll declare Federer goat based on those objective measurements.

Now you won't agree and chose different numbers. See, you cannot declare a goat lol
 

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No, it cannot be objective if we don't agree on what numbers matter (the most).

For instance : Slams and M1000 did not always exist the way they do now with many players skipping AO back in the day and the surfaces being different. M1000 did not exist or did not have the same importance.

Overall titles and wins are consistent throughout time though so I'll declare Federer goat based on those objective measurements.

Now you won't agree and chose different numbers. See, you cannot declare a goat lol
As Muster, who has reached three QF stages at RG in career, can't be a greater clay-court player than Federer just because he has won a ton of clay 250 titles while others were playing slams & masters, similarly, more ATP 250/500 tournaments can't make Federer an open-era goat, nor an all-time goat considering Laver's 198 titles and Rosewall's 147.

If we took every tournament into account we would get these rankings (either for the goats or the most successful/accomplished players in the open era):


Djokovic 949
Federer 935
Nadal 849
Connors 614
Lendl 607
Sampras 523
McEnroe 514

Since Connors and Lendl can't really be greater players than Sampras this is rather a list for the most successful/accomplished players (in the open era), and the goat list should include only the big titles & finals and the number of weeks @ no.1 & y.e. no.1 seasons.
 

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Statistically when 3 players have won 20 slams each, if one of them goes ahead by a couple then calling him goat becomes a matter of preference.

20 slam wins is too many to say 21 makes you the GOAT. At that number you really have to pull away with something that stands out.
 

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Mathematically he has no CYGS thus he isn't even in the GOAT debate.
 
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No, it cannot be objective if we don't agree on what numbers matter (the most).

For instance : Slams and M1000 did not always exist the way they do now with many players skipping AO back in the day and the surfaces being different. M1000 did not exist or did not have the same importance.

Overall titles and wins are consistent throughout time though so I'll declare Federer goat based on those objective measurements.

Now you won't agree and chose different numbers. See, you cannot declare a goat lol
Here are the relevant stats:



Tied with most grand slams with the other big 2 (for now)
Most Career Grand Slams
Most Golden Masters
Most consecutive slams won
Most Year End #1s
Most weeks at #1
Highest winning percentage
Most wins vs top 10 players
Most wins vs top 5 players
Most dominant head to head against the other "big 2"

And he will likely achieve the following stats in the near future:

Most grand slams won
Most World Tour Finals
Most Masters 1000

What other metric could you possibly use at this point to dispute Federer or Nadal or whoever else is the GOAT? It's just silly and is an argument driven purely on emotions rather than facts and analysis.
 

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Nobody has dominated the peers of his generation like Rod Laver did twice. Nobody achieved the level of dominance Nadal did on clay or Federer did on grass. And nobody has the overall stats that Djokovic has on average across all surfaces, hence why so many titles and DCGS etc.

Decades from now when I'll talk to my grand children if they ask me who the GOAT is I'll tell them (if things stay as they are) when it comes to pure stats Djokovic or Rod Laver. If you are really interested in tennis you need to appreciate all 3 of the Big 3 together and Rod Laver as the biggest legends of men's tennis.
 

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Nobody has dominated the peers of his generation like Rod Laver did twice. Nobody achieved the level of dominance Nadal did on clay or Federer did on grass. And nobody has the overall stats that Djokovic has on average across all surfaces, hence why so many titles and DCGS etc.

Decades from now when I'll talk to my grand children if they ask me who the GOAT is I'll tell them (if things stay as they are) when it comes to pure stats Djokovic or Rod Laver. If you are really interested in tennis you need to appreciate all 3 of the Big 3 together and Rod Laver as the biggest legends of men's tennis.
Rosewall was more dominant in his 12 wins out of 14 consecutive Pro Majors he entered in the 1960-65 period, including his six wins in the finals vs Laver.

Federer's 3 consecutive slams + RG'06 F + 3 consecutive slams + RG'07 F + 2 slams, i.e. 8 slams + 2 finals in ten consecutive slams is a considerably greater and more dominant achievement than Laver's F + W + 4R + CYGS'69, let alone Federer's 16 slams + 6 slam finals + 4 YEC in 6.5 years.

Djokovic had the greatest & most dominant 12 months in 2015/16 NoleSlam period, 4 slams + YEC + 5 masters + 3 masters finals.
 

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Accomplishments.. statistics... all that considered.. Given Laver's accomplishments are still being "mentioned" in discussions.. It is hard to say Novak is absolute GOAT.

To Novak fans, Novak will always be GOAT. To everyone else, not.. I guess. There are people who are talking about GOAtness as stats as a factor, but influence on sport. This is the same group with Michael Jordan vs LeBron James mode.

Regardless of how we look at it.. as they stand now, at this moment.. I do not think Novak is that ahead of Federer. I also think Nadal's accomplishments are no less.. there is enough number of weeks as no.1 and other stuff too. The way it stands now, big three belong to same stratosphere in tennis. They all have done wonderful amazing things.

Sure, Fed is done.. Nadal and Djoko story is still being written. So why rush? Novak fans wanted to crown him goat in 2015 itself.. forget about accomplishments. Lot of partial views of stats were also mentioned then.. What that tells is.. a player's fan is always going to consider that player as GOAT.
You look at their peaks, all of them produced amazing quality of tennis and domination, it is not like Novak is way ahead in that category either. This story will instantly change if some Rafa has a Novak like 2021.. in 2022.. Anything is possible. Everytime we write them off.. they came back and proved wrong. Nadal is not that older than Novak..
 
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